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study group application ~ Sagittarius

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study group application ~ Sagittarius


Before I begin, pls read the fire signs thread here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=9371

I've made some changes, so for some info about how the group is going to procede, check out this thread:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...0&pagenumber=3

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Sag/9th/Jupiter~
Moon in Sag/10th is very telling for my emotional needs (moon). Indepedence (sag) is the most important thing for me, I'll take it over social acceptance and friendship any day which makes it hard for me to play nicely w/others! I also hv Aquarius ASC conj Mars and MC conj a Scorpian Uran so the 2 planets in sextile add aggression, impulsivity and unconventionality to my Sag Moon. I also seek (sag) out knowledge very actively (sag). In fact, I'm quite miserable if I don't feel I'm being mentally stimulated.

Jupiter is in 8th which quintiles (ah! What does this aspect mean?) a Sag Venus (and Neptune) in 11th. Jupiter in Libra makes him in mutual reception w/her so should I pay attn to this 'minor' aspect? I like to help the art community (Venus/11th) grow (Jupiter) in particular. I like to draw and write music in my free time, and tend towards lavish (Jupiter) aesthetics (Venus). I also teach (jupiter) art (Venus) for $ (8th or 2nd?). Hm. My Saturn-Jupiter conj pretty much aspects almost everyone else in my chart so I guess I'll talk about them when we cover the other planets.

Another question mutual reception Q: w/Uran in mutual reception w/Mars, and exalted in Scorp, does this mean Uran will exert a stronger influence over Mars?

OK, as for 9th house, this is where I'm confused. Mine's empty, but there are just so many 9th like areas in my life that are heavily activated!

- I love school.
- I've studied lots of 'other' cultures and religions in school (esp in the arts) and I enjoy attending the culturally diverse activites that go on in Toronto. (I'd also say I've friends of different cultures, but this is really a given in TO...)
- I've travelled a fair bit for my age.
- I don't follow an organized religion, but I respect what they stand for and read up on them.
- I have a library (jupiter??) that expands at a ridiculous rate.

Sounds very 9th-like to me!
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Hey isthmus,
What's on the cusp of your 9th house? That might say something. Another thing is, if you have a strongly placed Jupiter, you'll still have a lot of things going on that are 9th house-like. A Jupiter-Saturn aspect says "llibrary" to me. Lots of material for higher learning (books) organized (Saturn) for ease of use. Or maybe I'm just talking out my a$$. I'm a rank beginner.

I have Saggitarius ascendant which is also trine my Sun and Mercury. I do have a stellium in Leo/8th house but I don't know if I should count all the planets in there as a sort of lump? Some of them are out of orb for a conjunct. Maybe someone could help me out with that.

Anyways, as my ascendant, this makes me project Sagittarius out into the world. I'm a grad student right now so I'm definitely into the higher learning things. I do have the Sag tendency to be (sometimes comically) blunt. I am very interested in religion and philosophy, and that ties in with having Jupiter in Leo in the 8th house as well. I am very interested in the occult. I'm studying witchcraft in history for my actual school work. My rising is actually really harmonious with my core identity (in Leo) though I tend to be more stubborn than someone would expect from a Sag. Oh and I do like to travel, but that's tempered by my Leo tendency to do it in style.

As for my 9th house... I have Pluto in Libra there. Not quite sure what that's all about.

Kes
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from another rank beginner :P


Keslynn,

My 9th is at Libra 29, and I've got Jupiter in Libra so maybe this charges 9th up a little? Jupiter makes a whack of aspects, so him and Saturn are very active in my chart. I haven't read this but I think Jupiter/Saturn spells library too. Structured (Saturn) learning (Jupiter). In any case, I go to libraries an awful lot! The funny thing is, my own library is logically organized into 'areas' like a bookstore, but w/i each 'area' I've organized the books by sheer aesthetic pleasure (Venus)!!! I want my library to be nice to look at too

Woo, Sag trining Sun and moon! I'd say this gives lots of confidence for easy self expression. As for interpreting the Leo planets, I'd check out *how* out of orb the planets are. Generally for conjs, it's about 8 degrees, but I've seen allowances up to 10 for sun/moon. In any case, for the out of orb planets, I'd interpret the conjs as weak if I were to include the aspect.

Let's see, Jupiter in Leo, double fire in 8th. Lots of self expressive energy in 8th house dealings. I'd say you don't shy away from 8th issues that our society tries to ignore (death, finances, sex). On top of learning occult issues, I've also read Jupiter in 8th is favourable for inheritances and such. Of course, this may not be the place to speak of personal finances.

I think I've said this before but Pluto is an impersonal planet, so it doesn't have as much weight in an interpretation unless it has some serious aspects going on. I also have Pluto in Libra and I find it uneasy as Pluto says all or nothing, while Libra says let's look at both sides of the issue... I think how Pluto plays out is very dependant on his aspects to others...
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Moongold  Moongold is offline
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Cool


I decided to remove the post and go back to my books!
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Wow - ideas shooting all over the place and some real enthusiasm going - Sagittarius is about enthusiasm and ideals - optimism at its best. Sagittarius is concerned with growing as a person - Jupiter shows where we can expand and grow, Sagittarius shows where other planets must assist in our growth - they have to play a more enthusiastic and optimistic role.

Ruled by Jupiter, Sagittarius has taken on some Jupiter characteristics and these have also been attributed to the ninth House. We associate it with philosophy and learning - Higher Education - getting on and learning more about the world you live in and about yourself and the world.

Jupiter also travelled a lot - as do many 'chief god' figures. Travel is another way of learning both about yourself and about the world. We're not talking small trips here, we're talking about long distance trips - the ninth House is seen as dealing with long distance travel and the Higher Education process in our lives.

Jupiter is also the god of religion - in the original sense from the Latin Religio - meaning to observe the proper forms of worship and proper rituals that will allow you to contact the god. Organised religion is therefore something that lives in the ninth House.

Jupiter is also a law giver, so he rules the legal system (not necessarily Justice). For Sagittarians the Law is not an obstacle to growth but assists its growth. Contrast this with the Saturn view that rules are there to restrict and control.

Sagittarius marks the point in the year where Autumn changes into Winter - it therefore marks the days that will lead up to the midwinter celebrations either at the Winter Solstice or shortly after when the Sun is directly overhead at noon taking noon as measured by a clock (contrary to popular belief that this happens everyday it only happens on four days a year - one of which is Christmas Day). It is the mutable fire sign. Action and enthusiasm directed to change and development.

So for Sagittarius read enthusiasm, optimism and a zest for life.

For Jupiter read personal growth and expanison (though if taken to excess this becomes indulgence - the bad side of Jupiter) The ancients took Jupiter as the 'greater benefic ' it brought good fortune and luck.

For ninth House read the area of life where we can expand and develop myself through travel - either physically or philosophically - activities that will enable me to fit into and be a useful member of society.

Sagittarians are not particularly independent - that's our next sign Aquarius, where independence is a necessary aspect of life, without which we don't function properly.

When you read your chart - look for the House that has Sagittarius on its cusp. This House will be ruled by Jupiter, no matter where he is in the chart. This is an area of life where you can grow and develop.

Look for the sign on the cusp of the ninth. Its ruler will rule the ninth House and it, together with any planets in the ninth will say something about your attitudes and potential for travel, higher education (a better term would be adult education or continuing education), your attitudes and potential relating to organised religion and the legal system. Isthmus' ninth House has Libra on the cusp so Venus is the planet that will rule ninth activities. As Venus is the 'lesser benefic' it will fit well as ruler of this House.

Finally many Astrologers will treat Jupiter as a natural ruler of the ninth - so he has an interest on what goes on in this area of life. Isthmus is right to pick up on that - but Jupiter comes behind Venus in this case and any planets in the ninth. If they are weak then Jupiter could 'step in'.
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Heads up: The fire signs thread has been posted!
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=9371
---

Oh Moongold, I thought it was a fine analysis! Another Sag/Cap Jupiter/Saturn combo leading to libraries! I think we're onto something.... I've saved these posts so I'm replying to yours here. If you want me to remove the following too, just PM or post...

I'm not sure how Saturn in 8th will play out; if it makes aspects, this will be very revealing. I find Saturn aspects are very important, they represent the real lessons in a person's chart, their ability to be disciplined and hard working, as well as a tendancy towards a Saturnian nature which may manifest as diligency but also pessimism, depression.... I tend to see Saturn as the Senex (old man archetype) and Mercury/Uranus having shades of the Puer (eternal boy archetype).

As for your opposition (sag sun-uranus), Sag will want to seek, yes, and Uran will add the rebellion. Another possibility is that in doing so, you tend to overlook details (Jupiter) and rush through things (Uran). But you may also be enthusiastic and that could be inspiring to others.

Yes, Sags are extroverted, but w/a Cap rising, you may seem more practical and reserved as ASC is what ppl generally perceive first.

As for intense relationships, you said you had Cap/Pluto in the 8th/Libra so maybe that has something to do w/it. Check out who's aspecting Pluto, esp if he aspects Venus in some way. (I've Pluto in 8th sextiling my Venus. So despite being heavy in air, and having an air ASC, I can have very intense relationships - although I have a lot of Scorpio related energy in my chart.)

-------

Minderwiz, thanks for the input. I must be conflating the desire to seek with the desire to be independent as Uranus/Aquarius are prominent in my chart. w/its ties to education and religion, Sag must be more socially minded! I think this is a good example of how you need to integrate all aspects of a chart; someone else w/a Sag moon then might not have such a strong emotional need to be indepedent if they have say... lots of Cancer action happening. Also, your comments about Venus ruling 9th rings true; I've studied art fundies and my major is in cinema studies. Venus is conj Neptune (who rules film and photography).

Hmm... I've got to stop telling ppl that empty houses aren't as important...
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Moongold  Moongold is offline
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No problems Isthmus


Thanks for your feed back.

I removed the post because I was dissatisfied with it and realise I have a lot further to go amd MUCH to learn.

I'm actually enrolling in a local course next year and will have more time then to really concentrate on it.

Perhaps you could answer two simple questions at the moment:

1. What does it mean if there are no planets in a particular house? My guess is that the houses simply symbolise the particular aspects of life thet we have already discussed and there are transits that would have influence.

2. What are harmonic charts?

Many thanks,

Moongold
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Moongold,

To take your first question - no planets in a House does not indicate that the House is unimportant - but it is likely to be more easy to analyse. Take the ruler of the sign on the cusp and look at the interactions it makes with other planets through aspects. Also there will be some link between the House that the ruler is in and the House it rules. So if you have an empty tenth House ruled by Mercury in the fourth, there will be some link between career and family or home - such as working from home or being in the family business. If Mercury makes good aspects to other planets then you may well find that career issues are easily dealt with.

However such a House situation is going to be less prominent in your life than a House with three or four planets in it. The career may carry on and be successful but it is unlikely to be the regular focus of your life. You may desire and achieve success but not for itself but as a way of achieving the means and freedom to enjoy other things.

Harmonic Charts are a little more difficult. They are based on the idea of dividing the circle by numbers 1, 2, 3, 4 ....etc

Dividing by 1 gives 360 degrees the angle of a conjunction, dividing by 2 gives 180, the opposition, dividing by three gives 120, the trine and dividing by 4 gives 90, the square. These are the major aspects along with the sixth harmonic (dividing by six) which is 60 degrees, the Sextile.

All other harmonics are considered minor aspects. some Astrologers will use up to the 36th Harmonic - 10 degrees.

Rather than search for these by calculation it is possible to construct harmonic charts - for example a 36th Harmonic Chart will show all planets separated by an angle of ten degrees as being in conjunction (the same is true for any other harmonic and its related chart).

To what extent these are useful is a matter of argument - some Astrologers swear by the 5th or other harmonics, others never use them at all. I haven't tested their validity myself so If you have the necessary software you could try them out and see what you get.
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Moongold,

Perhaps the strength of a planet in your chart will affect the sign it rules, and in turn, the house that sign is cusping.

To address your 2nd question, this site gives a brief breakdown of harmonics: http://www.adze.com/astro/aspects.html
(I guess that answers my quintile question)
I was also reading the other day about Pluto's chart being very 5-like in terms of harmonics. I'll get back here on this when I reread that part of the book.

Of course, I have more questions!
How important is the notion of planets being exalted, dignified, detrimented and fall(ed)? Also, how important is this idea of dispositors? I'm guessing the answer will be subjective, but I'm not sure what to make of these concepts.
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empty house/empty sign


Thanks for asking that question about empty houses, moongold. What about empty signs? Sag is empty in my chart. I feel full fledged Capi. with sun moon and mercury occuping cap. But Sag is my 4th house and that house holds the sun and mercury. I'm going to have to take this new info and apply it to my chart.....be back with my findings.
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