How can Eight of Cups lead to Four of Wands

[SeekingLife]

It confuses me so much when I get extremely negative cards followed by really positive cards as an outcome. I asked what the most likely outcome of a relationship I have with this guy would be, and I got Four of Wands...but the immediate future position was Eight of Cups. Eight of Cups typically means leaving behind a situation that no longer suits you, something that you put effort into but that isn't worth it anymore. How would that lead to a card that essentially means coming together to build something? I've also gotten Eight of Wands, The World, Justice, and Judgment in readings pertaining to this situation. Eight of Wands means things happening quickly, the World can be beginnings or an ending, Justice is things falling into place, and Judgment...well, weighing the pros and cons of the relationship (which I've been doing a lot and apparently, according to these readings, so has he). The guy had been really hurt in the past and hasn't really gotten over it, so could the immediate future be him finally letting go of her? Or does it specifically have to pertain to the two of us in the reading?

 

[rwcarter]

Seems like you've been doing a lot of readings on the same topic judging by the number of cards you've listed. And no card is completely "extremely" negative or positive.

To steal from Judge Judy, the 8 Cups could be saying, "Put a period on it and move on." So from what you've written, he may need to do that before he's able to reach a 4W stage with you. Normally I'd say that since you asked about the relationship, the cards drawn pertain to the relationship and not to the individuals in the relationship. So it may be that both of you need to put a period on something before the relationship can progress to the 4W stage.

Rodney

 

[WalesWoman]

Sometimes in order to go forward, you have to leave the past behind, so my guess is with 8 Cups, there are built up expectations, old emotional baggage from past relationships and most importantly, a willingness to let go of everything you believe relationships are supposed to be and have enough faith in each other to journey into the unknown, untried and untested.

8 Cups in relationships is like the story of Ruth, leaving behind her family, her country and everything she was familiar with to follow her heart, "Wither thou goest, I will go. Your people, will be my people, your land, will be my land...."

 

[Grizabella]

That quote from the Book of Ruth in the Bible was part of my wedding vows to my late husband. We got married in Reno and there was a Gideon Bible in the room. We were low budget, so I stole the Bible and marked the passage in it and gave it to him after reading it to him. He was Seventh Day Adventist and I was baptized with him after we were married.

But back to the topic, I think the 8 of Cups is a "good" card. It's always good when we get our priorities in order and can move forward with confidence. The 4 of Wands shows a celebration, and I think rightfully so. Having gotten your affairs into good order emotionally, that's cause for celebration and a lasting benefit.

 

[MandMaud]

I've always felt positive about the 8 of Cups, too. It can be a moment of sadness, but recognising something's finished with and moving on from it is a healthy step.

You ask specifically whether it could refer to his letting go of a past love, and yes it could, but I expect you were asking about your relationship - rather than about his state of mind - which implies it is about your relationship...!

In theory, if I had no context and wanted to understand how 8C could lead to a 4W outcome, I'd suggest that managing to let go emotionally of something is a necessary step towards ending up with a strong foundation for building something that will last into the future.

But to be blunt, I suspect the cards have been telling you something you don't want to see, and so you've been asking and re-asking (perhaps with differing wording) in the hope of getting an answer you like. ?? The 4W could even mean that you *yourself* will be stable and confident after releasing this neediness...

... though you haven't really said enough for me to draw this conclusion.

 

[SeekingLife]

Seems like you've been doing a lot of readings on the same topic judging by the number of cards you've listed. And no card is completely "extremely" negative or positive.

To steal from Judge Judy, the 8 Cups could be saying, "Put a period on it and move on." So from what you've written, he may need to do that before he's able to reach a 4W stage with you. Normally I'd say that since you asked about the relationship, the cards drawn pertain to the relationship and not to the individuals in the relationship. So it may be that both of you need to put a period on something before the relationship can progress to the 4W stage.

Rodney

I'd agree. In fact, just today I did tell him I needed to stop being with him the way I have been with him since we were not in an established relationship. It almost felt like a "break-up" even though we were not really dating in the first place. It's still hard to see a Four of Wands coming out of this. He says he really does like me, but that obviously isn't enough to bring about a Four of Wands situation in the relationship. Now, whether what I did was what was expected as the Eight of Cups (I've been thinking about it for a long time even though I knew it was going to hurt) or if it changed the situation, I really don't know... We also discussed how we both need to separately take care of ourselves financially, and to do so, we'll most likely be separated by many miles. Again, I don't see how that can get to a Four of Wands as it's more of a Three of Swords situation. Part of me wants something to turn around, but the realistic part of me is saying that's a huge stretch.

 

[SeekingLife]

Sometimes in order to go forward, you have to leave the past behind, so my guess is with 8 Cups, there are built up expectations, old emotional baggage from past relationships and most importantly, a willingness to let go of everything you believe relationships are supposed to be and have enough faith in each other to journey into the unknown, untried and untested.

8 Cups in relationships is like the story of Ruth, leaving behind her family, her country and everything she was familiar with to follow her heart, "Wither thou goest, I will go. Your people, will be my people, your land, will be my land...."

Yeah, I know there are built up expectations on both of our ends. He is obsessed with the extremely romantic (as he sees it, anyway) unrequited love. I tend to see him as The Fool and Page of Cups. I try to be more pragmatic in my approach to love, since I've been jaded and hurt many times in the past. Unfortunately, against my own advice, I fell for this guy. We both have old emotional baggage from past relationships, him not being able to fall in love again, me feeling that no man will ever really love me for me. It makes for a bad combination.

 

[SeekingLife]

I think the 8 of Cups is a "good" card. It's always good when we get our priorities in order and can move forward with confidence. The 4 of Wands shows a celebration, and I think rightfully so. Having gotten your affairs into good order emotionally, that's cause for celebration and a lasting benefit.

I hope I have reason to celebrate later on. I've confronted something in the relationship and have left behind the way things were... I just feel terribly depressed, though. He's gone off to his home state for a while, and we left on a sad note. I had to say something, though, because it hasn't felt right. I've been happier with him than I'd been in a long time, but at the same time, it's felt almost superficial in a Moon or maybe Seven of Cups sort of way. Without any admission of love or a commitment, none of it is real to me. I guess I'm glad I finally said something, but I also am hurting because of it.

 

[SeekingLife]

I've always felt positive about the 8 of Cups, too. It can be a moment of sadness, but recognising something's finished with and moving on from it is a healthy step.

You ask specifically whether it could refer to his letting go of a past love, and yes it could, but I expect you were asking about your relationship - rather than about his state of mind - which implies it is about your relationship...!

In theory, if I had no context and wanted to understand how 8C could lead to a 4W outcome, I'd suggest that managing to let go emotionally of something is a necessary step towards ending up with a strong foundation for building something that will last into the future.

But to be blunt, I suspect the cards have been telling you something you don't want to see, and so you've been asking and re-asking (perhaps with differing wording) in the hope of getting an answer you like. ?? The 4W could even mean that you *yourself* will be stable and confident after releasing this neediness...

... though you haven't really said enough for me to draw this conclusion.

You are probably right...though I don't know if I've totally released it...only put the truth out for him to know. I still feel the same way - he just knows now exactly how I feel. Like I said to him, this would be so much easier if I hated him. I don't, though.

I have been asking a lot, but mostly because his feelings for me keep coming up as wishy-washy at best. He's always Justice (weighing the pros and cons) and Judgment or 2 of Cups. I have never gotten anything bad for where the relationship was headed, just nothing concrete. Same with his feelings - nothing bad but nothing concrete. I'm basically looking for a commitment where there is none. I had gotten Four of Wands with him before...but in the context of the relationship and how it has no real definition, it never makes sense. Looking for a commitment with him, I'm afraid, is like trying to catch the wind.

 

[MandMaud]

I have been asking a lot, but mostly because his feelings for me keep coming up as wishy-washy at best.

... which could be exactly what his feelings are.

The 4 of Wands could also refer to *you* yourself finding a stable basis for moving on. Wands/fire can be the Self - I'm always conscious of that element's relation to the Individual. When you accept that this guy is (another potential interpretation): Justice = a lesson for you - you say it would be easier if you didn't like him, and when things aren't easy they're lessons in my experience - when you've accepted that, you'll be in a less "wobbly", less prevaricating place, and if nothing else, you'll have a more steady, reliable relationship with YOU.