Phoenix Rising
I was reading Linda Goodmans Starsigns, and she said that the True ruler of Taurus is Pan-Horus when it is discovered and Vulcan is true ruler of Virgo? So can you wonderful astrologers give some insight on this.
Planets Pan-Horus & Vulcan
dadsnook2000
Opinions
This is my day to express opinions. Your author has expressed her opinion.
Rulerships are a process for relating a "Sign's" quality of experience (Aries = leadership and passion terndancies, Libra = social harmony, Virgo = sense of diligence, etc. to use simplistic examples) to a "Planet's" form of energy expression (Mars = expressing anger or taking action, Venus = harmonizing and beautifying, Mercury = perception and understanding what we sense).
We use rulerships to associate ideal qualities of experience with appropriate forms of energy expression. Signs are not planets, they are not houses. Each is different. A given sign is said to best express given planet's energies. Claiming that certain planetoids best represent a sign's ideal blend of experience with a "planets" (?) energy is quite a stretch given that there may not be a general acceptance, or even an sizable body of research and application of meanings to draw upon. If these claims are somewhat valid, then the majority of us who do a lot of chart work will have to test them and get to a point where we find they work for us better than that which we have now. Dave.
This is my day to express opinions. Your author has expressed her opinion.
Rulerships are a process for relating a "Sign's" quality of experience (Aries = leadership and passion terndancies, Libra = social harmony, Virgo = sense of diligence, etc. to use simplistic examples) to a "Planet's" form of energy expression (Mars = expressing anger or taking action, Venus = harmonizing and beautifying, Mercury = perception and understanding what we sense).
We use rulerships to associate ideal qualities of experience with appropriate forms of energy expression. Signs are not planets, they are not houses. Each is different. A given sign is said to best express given planet's energies. Claiming that certain planetoids best represent a sign's ideal blend of experience with a "planets" (?) energy is quite a stretch given that there may not be a general acceptance, or even an sizable body of research and application of meanings to draw upon. If these claims are somewhat valid, then the majority of us who do a lot of chart work will have to test them and get to a point where we find they work for us better than that which we have now. Dave.
Phoenix Rising
Thankyou Dave for giving us your knowledge, I'm not that knowledgable on Astrology myself so I don't know whether to agree or not. I suppose it's the same as some people saying that there is a 13th sign of the "Spider" Although wasn't it only in the last 100 years that pluto was discovered? And was then assigned to Scorpio? Before that who was ruling scorpio? Mars and uranus?
I have heard of Vulcan, but not Pan-Horus.
It always amazes me how the ancient astrologers knew of these things, from looking at the stars, and back then not having the technology we have today.
Your knowledge and wisdom is very much appreciated thankyou.
I have heard of Vulcan, but not Pan-Horus.
It always amazes me how the ancient astrologers knew of these things, from looking at the stars, and back then not having the technology we have today.
Your knowledge and wisdom is very much appreciated thankyou.
Minderwiz
There is a lot of confusion in Astrology over the term rulership - even amongst professional Astrologers. There's a least two distinct ways in which the term is used. Firstly as expressing a strong affinity between planet and 'thing' - thus, for example, Venus is said to rule dancing, love, joy and Green Jaspar (and loads of other things).
The second distinct usage is in the sign rulership and here the originating principle is not affinity but seasonal. The Sun rules the hotest month/sign of the year (Northern Hemisphere) - Leo. The coldest month/sign of the year - Aquarius iss ruled by Saturn because it was the visible planet furthest from the Sun (and thus the coldest). The Moon, as the other Astrologial light, ruled Cancer and the Summer Solstice. The Winter Solstice and Capricorn was ruled by Saturn. Working back from the cold signs of Capricorn /Aquarius moving in both directions around the circle of the signs, Jupiter ruled Pisces and Sagittarius, Mars ruled Scorpio and Aries, Venus ruled Libra and Taurus and Mercury rules Gemini and Virgo.
Now on the first interpretation of rulership there is room for argument and discussion - Tradtional writers clearly differ over the planet that rules owls, with Venus, the Moon (for owls out at night), Mars and Saturn all getting a mention in this role. It's clear that the rulership depends on how you see the nature of an owl. At a modern level it's quite possible to argue whether Mercury or Uranus is a better (stronger affinity) ruler for Computers.
However on the sign rulerships if you say that Pluto should rule Scorpio, then there is a problem. If this is done on the basis of affinity, it contradicts the system based on seasons and therefore invalidates Mars' rulership of Aries and indeed all the other rulerships. So my short answer is that Venus rules Taurus and Mercury rules Virgo and this is the case because it is based on the system of sign rulerships that has been handed down to us.
To further add fuel to the fire, I think I'm correct in stating that both Vulcan and Pan Horus are 'hypothetical' planets - their existance is not confirmed. Personally I don't think Taurueans are ruled by a probably non-existant planet
That being said threre are clearly Astrologers who do use hypothetical planets and I am not suggesting that this approach is invalid - though I do question whether such planets can be usefully used as rulers, especially when no confirmed ephemerides exist for them.
The second distinct usage is in the sign rulership and here the originating principle is not affinity but seasonal. The Sun rules the hotest month/sign of the year (Northern Hemisphere) - Leo. The coldest month/sign of the year - Aquarius iss ruled by Saturn because it was the visible planet furthest from the Sun (and thus the coldest). The Moon, as the other Astrologial light, ruled Cancer and the Summer Solstice. The Winter Solstice and Capricorn was ruled by Saturn. Working back from the cold signs of Capricorn /Aquarius moving in both directions around the circle of the signs, Jupiter ruled Pisces and Sagittarius, Mars ruled Scorpio and Aries, Venus ruled Libra and Taurus and Mercury rules Gemini and Virgo.
Now on the first interpretation of rulership there is room for argument and discussion - Tradtional writers clearly differ over the planet that rules owls, with Venus, the Moon (for owls out at night), Mars and Saturn all getting a mention in this role. It's clear that the rulership depends on how you see the nature of an owl. At a modern level it's quite possible to argue whether Mercury or Uranus is a better (stronger affinity) ruler for Computers.
However on the sign rulerships if you say that Pluto should rule Scorpio, then there is a problem. If this is done on the basis of affinity, it contradicts the system based on seasons and therefore invalidates Mars' rulership of Aries and indeed all the other rulerships. So my short answer is that Venus rules Taurus and Mercury rules Virgo and this is the case because it is based on the system of sign rulerships that has been handed down to us.
To further add fuel to the fire, I think I'm correct in stating that both Vulcan and Pan Horus are 'hypothetical' planets - their existance is not confirmed. Personally I don't think Taurueans are ruled by a probably non-existant planet
That being said threre are clearly Astrologers who do use hypothetical planets and I am not suggesting that this approach is invalid - though I do question whether such planets can be usefully used as rulers, especially when no confirmed ephemerides exist for them.
Phoenix Rising
Thankyou too for you wisdom and knowledge, I found this particularly interesting too.
Just to go off the subject a little, can you tell me then from a astological point of view, what suits in tarot are associated with the Seasons?
I'm getting a much better appreciation for astrology now, it was the one esoteric subject that I didn't delve into, because it seemed so complex..lol
dadsnook2000
Seasonal indicators in tarot
Phoenix Rising, there seems to be several variants of systems that equate time to tarot cards. One of my sources suggests that the Ace of Wands equates to March, April and May; the Ace of Cups equates to December, January and February, the Ace of Swords to June, July and August; and the Ace of Pentacles to September, October and November. The individual cards other than the Aces in each suite represent spans of time that are much like decans (10 to 12 days) with the Page representing a short span of any three days.
I haven't tested this time equating to cards method, or even the link between specific tarot cards and astrology (which I am not convinced is even valid). I've just joined an on-line group that will be exploring the tarot to astrology links for the next year. Perhaps that will be helpful. Dave.
Phoenix Rising, there seems to be several variants of systems that equate time to tarot cards. One of my sources suggests that the Ace of Wands equates to March, April and May; the Ace of Cups equates to December, January and February, the Ace of Swords to June, July and August; and the Ace of Pentacles to September, October and November. The individual cards other than the Aces in each suite represent spans of time that are much like decans (10 to 12 days) with the Page representing a short span of any three days.
I haven't tested this time equating to cards method, or even the link between specific tarot cards and astrology (which I am not convinced is even valid). I've just joined an on-line group that will be exploring the tarot to astrology links for the next year. Perhaps that will be helpful. Dave.
Phoenix Rising
Thanks Dave, yes there are many takes on it. And the difference too is of the Hemispheres. I'm in the Southern Hemis..and we're in summer now(Dec, Jan, Feb)but looking at Minderwiz previous post cancer rules the summer solstice(water sign) So cups makes sense to me for summer, Swords I have always thought of as winter, so that relates. It's spring and Autumn that I get mixed up in. But I'm sure the seasons and suit association should be universal no matter what hemisphere we're in.
dadsnook2000
For Phoenix Rising
Quote:
But I'm sure the seasons and suit association should be universal no matter what hemisphere we're in.
Close Quote by Phoenix Rising
What "universal"? There are more opinions out there than there are authors of tarot books. Dave
Quote:
But I'm sure the seasons and suit association should be universal no matter what hemisphere we're in.
Close Quote by Phoenix Rising
What "universal"? There are more opinions out there than there are authors of tarot books. Dave
Phoenix Rising
Hehe..yes absolutely Dave, now I'm confused, oh well I think I'll leave astrology to the astrologers!
