The Star and Temperance

GoddessArtemis

If person A loves Person B like The Star and B loves A like Temperance, who loves the other more? Or how does each love the other? (clearly, they love differently)

ETA: I mis-worded my original question. It's not about who loves the other more, but how do they love one another.

I have several of my own interpretations on this:

From an astrological stand point, The Star is Aquarius and Temperance is Sagittarius. Compatible, but different in their approach to romance...but most people are.

From a tarot perspective, The Star could be seen as being emotionlly detached/distant (though honestly, I don't see this card that way), while Temperance tries to blend and create a workable entity out of two different elements.

One thing I believe to be true about both is they both have a "healing" aspect to them.

But otherwise, I feel something is missing in my train of thought in response to the original question.

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on this.

GA :heart:
 

queenxofxwands

The star...maybe this persons love is based on deep admiration, they may put the other person first, or above them. They see this person as their inspiration

Temperance...maybe this persons love comes from a place of the chemistry being perfect, and may feel like the other completes them, maybe they finish each others sentences etc,
 

WalesWoman

If person A loves Person B like The Star and B loves A like Temperance, who loves the other more?


... I feel something is missing in my train of thought in response to the original question.
Who loves the other more? That is the train of thought that has derailed you. It makes love a no win competition because the one who is thinking in that mode is always measuring and most likely always feeling that they love the other more and the other person, even if they are trying their best will never measure up.

Person A loving like the Star is someone who tends to pour out their feelings like a bottomless well and doesn't really worry about what they get back, because giving is what makes them feel good. Seeing what comes from their outpouring replenishes them. They don't give in order to get and don't really need affirmation or gratitude. They know in their heart that it's all reciprocal, that love simply IS. Their joy comes helping things to grow and thrive.

Person B loving like Temperance... testing the waters, rather than immersion... needs to feel that it's all contained, that nothing spills out or is wasted, that it has to mean something more than individuality, that each others feelings creates something that has never existed before and is unique to each other... very exclusive, sort of manipulative and has high expectations.

No where does this say one loves the other more... what it does say is, one gives love without thought for what it gives them, the other needs to contain and make something more of it.
 

GoddessArtemis

Thank you, queenxofxwands and WalesWoman. :)

I agree with both of you, especially with regards to The Star. I was thinking on these two cards and your input, and I had several other questions about these cards:

1. Temperance: is this card considered one of "measured" emotions? The angel is trying to mix the right amount, I'm assuming, but does that mean it's trying to get the "right" amount, or it's just measuring out - not giving fully, just some?

It's interesting that The Star is pouring out endless amounts of water, as WalesWoman put it, and Temperance is mixing a certain quantity.

2. Can Temperance represent give/take, with the liquid being mixed back and forth?

3. What of the two being in water/by a body of water? I'd somehow overlooked the fact that their environments are quite similar - if not even the same environment?

4. What of the fact (in RWS) that The Star is standing in water at night, while Temperance is at the same place by day? Both have one foot in the water...what's the significance, particularly in response to the OP?

5. What about the fact that The Star is further along (numerically) than Temperance? Does it mean it's more evolved or just further along on its journey?

The Star vs Temperance (Morgan Greer)

I didn't expect so many questions to pop out of my one question, but it will help me better understanding using these two cards.

Thank you.

GA :heart:
 

WalesWoman

Thank you, queenxofxwands and WalesWoman. :)

I agree with both of you, especially with regards to The Star. I was thinking on these two cards and your input, and I had several other questions about these cards:

1. Temperance: is this card considered one of "measured" emotions? The angels is trying to mix the right amount, I'm assuming, but does that mean it's trying to get the "right" amount, or it's just measuring out - not giving fully, just some?

It's interesting that The Star is pouring out endless amounts of water, as WalesWoman put it, and Temperance is mixing a certain quantity.
Hmm, that is a really good question, perhaps the getting the proper mix is the path that leads to an understanding... and maybe some experimenting to get the right balance. Too much or too little, one is either smothered or neglected...but get it just right and everyone is happy. The trick is getting that balance without it beginning to feel like some rote recipe and routine.

2. Can Temperance represent give/take, with the liquid being mixed back and forth?
Anything is possible, so why not? But usually I think of it as the mixed essences of each of the personalities involved, so that you can't tell where one stops and the other begins and You and I become Us.

3. What of the two being in water/by a body of water? I'd somehow overlooked the fact that their environments are quite similar - if not even the same environment?
Doh! That was staring me in the face and didn't quite catch that similarity either... both are dipping a toe... testing the water to make sure it isn't too hot or too cold. Both stand outside their emotional depths, but are in contact with them... so there is ability to look at things from a point of objectivity and clarity.

4. What of the fact (in RWS) that The Star is standing in water at night, while Temperance is at the same place by day? Both have one foot in the water...what's the significance, particularly in response to the OP?
See #3. OP? Like I said, they are in touch with their emotions, but not immersed in them, so they can be objective and have clarity.
I think the day/Temperance will go by more of what they can see, rationally, and with the Sun warming it, will be more passionate about what they create from that passion. If indeed it is the same place, then the seedlings have flourished and flowered. There is a clear path ahead or perhaps wisdom led them on the path to the waters edge, to mix the emotions so they are neither too sweet or too bitter, too weak or too strong.

The Star is night, so will be more about feelings, intuition, blind faith and a willingness to act even when they don't know for certain what is there or what is to come. They are the guiding light in the darkness, solace in uncertainty.

5. What about the fact that The Star is further along (numerically) than Temperance? Does it mean it's more evolved or just further along on its journey?
Perhaps the difference is experience that comes from experimenting... as you were asking earlier, if it's about measuring what is given or giving in equal measure... the give and take element, then there is going to be a need for more learning and the Stars lesson is, love generates more love and is endless. There is a sense of self completion, in the Star... it is sort of reciprocal, but in a different way than the reciprocated love between one person and another. The Star finds it's completion from an inner source that is fed from the divine universe, rather than needing to believe they are complete receiving love from another person.

Another notable difference is the Star is mortal and naked, a mere vulnerable woman, hiding nothing in the dark, getting down close to the water, kneeling in order to reach it... while Temperance is clothed, standing up and a divine being with wings... pretty powerful and well, remote. Temperance feels more like the divine intervention... maybe a feeling that this was the mix that created twin souls... that the power is in another's hands. Where in the Star it's more hands on involvement... more inspired by what guides your heart and mind...

Another difference is in the Star, one is a pool & contained, the other flowing, but there is no co-mingling of the waters... Temperance is all about the co-mingling and mixing.
 

GoddessArtemis

Hmm, that is a really good question, perhaps the getting the proper mix is the path that leads to an understanding... and maybe some experimenting to get the right balance. Too much or too little, one is either smothered or neglected...but get it just right and everyone is happy. The trick is getting that balance without it beginning to feel like some rote recipe and routine.
So this perhaps makes Temperance "choosy" (or exclusive, as you put it), but maybe less manipulative/more practical?

Anything is possible, so why not? But usually I think of it as the mixed essences of each of the personalities involved, so that you can't tell where one stops and the other begins and You and I become Us.
I like the sound of that. But, Temperance's version of "Us" is very different than The Star, isn't it? It sort of goes back to that "measured" idea I had - Star says, "Have it ALL, have all of me!" and Temperance says, "I give you a cup, and you give me a cup". Temperance seems more "controlled," wouldn't you say?
Doh! That was staring me in the face and didn't quite catch that similarity either... both are dipping a toe... testing the water to make sure it isn't too hot or too cold. Both stand outside their emotional depths, but are in contact with them... so there is ability to look at things from a point of objectivity and clarity.
I know, right? It took me two days of pondering these two cards when this obvious similarity finally dawned on me. Also notice...they are both using both hands - The Star is pouring out with two jugs, while Temperance is pouring out/mixing with two cups. Both are measured, but one is infinitely more giving than the other, one might say. I would even go so far as to say, The Star pours out the essence, the elements needs (two jugs' worth!), and Temperance comes along the next day and tests (like a scientist) the right amounts to get the right mix. This sounds about right, looking at both cards, except The Star comes after Temperance, so it is sort of backwards. Hmmm.

Original post. :)
Like I said, they are in touch with their emotions, but not immersed in them, so they can be objective and have clarity. I think the day/Temperance will go by more of what they can see, rationally, and with the Sun warming it, will be more passionate about what they create from that passion. If indeed it is the same place, then the seedlings have flourished and flowered. There is a clear path ahead or perhaps wisdom led them on the path to the waters edge, to mix the emotions so they are neither too sweet or too bitter, too weak or too strong.

The Star is night, so will be more about feelings, intuition, blind faith and a willingness to act even when they don't know for certain what is there or what is to come. They are the guiding light in the darkness, solace in uncertainty.
Good points. Also though, The Star works by the cool air of the night (rational? Aquarius), while Temperance goes by the hot sun of the day (passion? Sagittarius)...in a way, they compliment each other, both elementally and action-wise.

Perhaps the difference is experience that comes from experimenting...as you were asking earlier, if it's about measuring what is given or giving in equal measure...the give and take element, then there is going to be a need for more learning and the Stars lesson is, love generates more love and is endless. There is a sense of self completion, in the Star... it is sort of reciprocal, but in a different way than the reciprocated love between one person and another. The Star finds it's completion from an inner source that is fed from the divine universe, rather than needing to believe they are complete receiving love from another person.
That's beautifully put!

Another notable difference is the Star is mortal and naked, a mere vulnerable woman, hiding nothing in the dark, getting down close to the water, kneeling in order to reach it... while Temperance is clothed, standing up and a divine being with wings... pretty powerful and well, remote. Temperance feels more like the divine intervention... maybe a feeling that this was the mix that created twin souls...that the power is in another's hands. Where in the Star it's more hands on involvement...more inspired by what guides your heart and mind...
The Star is very naked, and Temperance is quite clothed. But does this mean The Star and Temperance are then, not compatible? Because Temperance is the guiding source, whereas the The Star is the guided? Except people are guided by stars at night, and The Star comes after Temperance...so who guides whom? Is this what you mean by twin souls (a term I struggle to comprehend on many occasions)?
Another difference is in the Star, one is a pool & contained, the other flowing, but there is no co-mingling of the waters... Temperance is all about the co-mingling and mixing.
The Star is immersing herself in the pool - she's naked, ready to go in. Temperance is definitely testing the waters, and not going in anytime soon, being so fully clothed. :)

When we discuss it back/forth like we are, it makes me think...which card is which? They are so similar, but I didn't notice before until now. Of course, there are marked differences, but it's giving me a whole new insight into both these cards!

As far as the OP and how these two cards love...I think they're different but complimentary. Would you say that's a fair conclusion?

Oh gosh, I just had another flash of insight and when I went to edit my post to add it, it left me. That's frustrating...grr. ;)

ETA: I think it was something along the lines of The Star is like a "night person" - doing their best work by the light of the moon, so to speak, while Temperance is a "day" person - up at the crack of dawn and working away under the blazing sun. These two together...well, give each other space, they maintain their individuality, yet dip into the same (we think) pool so they have a shared/common interest, but still remain true to their own paths. They are not co-dependent and don't spend every waking moment together because they likely aren't even awake during the same hours! :D But with one managing the evening and the other, daytime, they make their "world" go round. Something like that....
 

WalesWoman

I like the sound of that. But, Temperance's version of "Us" is very different than The Star, isn't it? It sort of goes back to that "measured" idea I had - Star says, "Have it ALL, have all of me!" and Temperance says, "I give you a cup, and you give me a cup". Temperance seems more "controlled," wouldn't you say?
Getting the right mix, isn't always using equal quantities of tit per tat, it's what ever it takes to get the mix just right... so it is using self control I think, more than being manipulative of another person. Like knowing when to shut up & give space and when to not let things go & be in their face, how much to give without suffocation or overwhelming or drowning or how much to take without sucking the life out of them.

Star may or may not do that, it depends on if they have the self control to keep that outgoing stream steady, but constant, which might be why that second pitcher doesn't over flow into the pond... but goes out other places. Star would have that boundless love, "Here I am, take all of me", but has so much to give that their love will go out in everything they do... so will pour themselves into all aspects of life, but always have a reserve to dip into.

The Air of Aquarius and the Fire of Sagittarius would definitely compliment each other, so that could be what the 'mixing' is about... balancing night & day contrasts, compensating each others deficiencies, building on each others strengths so that the water doesn't drown the fire or the fire create a drought. It's pretty much like a yin-yang thang. Temperance has the Fire/Male energy and balances it with the Water/Female energy.

The Star is very naked, and Temperance is quite clothed. But does this mean The Star and Temperance are then, not compatible? Because Temperance is the guiding source, whereas the The Star is the guided? Except people are guided by stars at night, and The Star comes after Temperance...so who guides whom? Is this what you mean by twin souls (a term I struggle to comprehend on many occasions)?
I would say sheer magnetism draws them together....the Sun guides by day (which also is a star), the Star guides by night. They simply do the same thing in different ways and have no idea how it works but are happy that it does.

Twin souls are supposedly much like soul mates, only made of the same stuffs... think that is where the yin/yang thang comes into play. Think of Temperance as Yin and Star as Yang. Break it apart and you've got night and day, opposites of the same whole, put them back together and they are whole again, one thing with different parts. They are totally compatible once they figure out how they fit together.
I think it was something along the lines of The Star is like a "night person" - doing their best work by the light of the moon, so to speak, while Temperance is a "day" person - up at the crack of dawn and working away under the blazing sun. These two together...well, give each other space, they maintain their individuality, yet dip into the same (we think) pool so they have a shared/common interest, but still remain true to their own paths. They are not co-dependent and don't spend every waking moment together because they likely aren't even awake during the same hours! But with one managing the evening and the other, daytime, they make their "world" go round. Something like that....
Totally something like that. In my Fire/Water relationship, he's Aquarius, I am Leo... but I am the night person and he's up before dawn even cracks and snoozing once the sun goes down... so maybe night is when he refuels to get through the day, while I soak up that solar energy and use it to fuel my late nights.
 

GoddessArtemis

Thanks for all that, WalesWoman. Sorry I didn't respond sooner - horrible case of the stomach flu for 10 days.

This was an excellent and helpful discussion. :D

GA :heart:
 

willowfox

If person A loves Person B like The Star and B loves A like Temperance, who loves the other more? Or how does each love the other? (clearly, they love differently)

***Star loves more than Temperance, as Star is the dream whereas Temperance has much more control over their emotions.