Trumps # 22 thru #27 ???

[tarotbear]

Considering there are Princess, female Knights, Valets, and all sorts of other or unused Court cards out there ... why aren't there/haven't been more Trumps to even out the Majors?

Why isn't there a Trump for #22, #23, #24, #25, #26, or #27? They could be 'The Fool's Journey Faces Reality' or something like that. After all, if you figure out your Life Cards, if your Life Number is 4 or higher, you only have 2 Trumps instead of 3, like the Ones, Twos, and Threes do. Don't those people deserve a separate Shadow Card?

SO ....

They would still have to connect back to the other Trumps they are numerologically connected with, so .... anyone have any ideas for "The New Trumps for the 21st Century?"

 

[trzes]

Brilliant idea, really!

On holiday I had some time left to read about the fool's journey in Rachel Pollack’s book. All was so utterly "higher consciousness" and "all is one -Om!" She suggests a system roughly like fool + 7 cards social life + 7 cards inner world + 7 cards spirituality. So I would pretty much like to have another row of seven cards that contrast the "higher level of spirituality" with specific experiences of daily life. To help the fool face reality indeed.

Those extra Arcana should be less positive, the 4th lesson being that meditation and esoteric practice will NOT make us float above all the problems of life forever.

As #27 I would like the Marseille version of the Lovers which I always thought of as a total different thing than the RWS one, here symbolizing a decision that implies the opposite of a win-win situation, something like catch 22, however you decide you will hurt somebody, the dilemma archetype.

#28 should be entropy. That’s what we all have to face, even the universe in a whole. No idea how to depict that though.

And I am not sure how that would meet any numerological requirements. But I like the idea of extra Arcana very much!

 

[tarotbear]

I like what you said but there would be no #28, numerically, since it would reduce to 1, and the 1/10/19 connection exists. We would try to be creating the 'Shadow' card Trump. The Shadow card represents those qualities we would most like to ignore - the bits we don't like about ourselves. {Considering 19, 20, & 21 are very positive cards!}

1/10/19
2/11/20
3/12/21
4/13/--
5/14/--
6/15/--
7/16/--
8/17/--
9/18/--

Thus #13 - #17 would then become the Personality instead of being the Shadow. I know that is combining two different thought processes here, but we have to try to create a basis and not just come up with random cards.

 

[Barleywine]

But . . but . . . would it really be tarot? Don't mind me, I'm just being a smart-a**. If we really want to create a shadow-card for each of the trumps, why not dispense with the numerological associations and simply create a counter-part for each of them, kind of the like the relationship of the Qliphoth ("shells") to the sephiroth of the Tree of Life. For example, the counter-part of the Fool could be the "Mad Scientist" . Or would that be the Magus' "shadow?" No, no, I'm just joking again. You can probably tell that I like the idea, though.

 

[rachelcat]

Oh, interesting point about the numerology thing.

I was just looking in here to be a smarta** about the minchiate. It has plenty more majors for ya! And the numbering of the majors is all different. Hmmm, I never thought about the numerology thing with the minchiate before . . . (Tripping off add numbers . . .)

(Off topic: I saw a bumpersticker the other day that said "I'd rather be a smarta** than a dumba**." My new sig line?)

 

[Barleywine]

(Off topic: I saw a bumpersticker the other day that said "I'd rather be a smarta** than a dumba**." My new sig line?)

(Off-off-topic) My brother, who is a factory rep for resort wear, once gave me a tee-shirt that had a picture of a goofy-looking bass on it, and the title "Dum Bass." I was gonna wear it to Mensa meetings, but then I dropped out before I had the chance. Or, on second thought, my wife might have worn it to make a point. Or one of those that says "I'm with stupid" and an arrow pointing at you-know-who !

Back on topic, I'm coming up with a list (probably only a semi-serious one) of suggestions for complementary "shadow" trump cards. Will post it here when done.

 

[Barleywine]

Back on topic, I'm coming up with a list (probably only a semi-serious one) of suggestions for complementary "shadow" trump cards. Will post it here when done.

OK, here's the list of "shadow trumps" according to Mad Magazine . Some of these would almost work. (I for one would love to see a "dark" Strength card showing a lion eating a Christian.) The rest are probably more worthy of jeers than cheers.

0 - The Con-Man
I - The Mad Scientist (Dr. Frankenstein would do)
II - The Head Nun
III - The Harlot
IV - The Tyrant
V - The Witch Doctor
VI - The Divorce Court
VII - The Broken Axle or Flat Tire
VIII - The Lion Eating a Christian
IX - The Social Climber
X - the Roulette Wheel (or how about Wheel of Fortune with Vanna White? Didn't think so.)
XI - The Hanging Judge (Judge Roy Bean was one)
XII - The Unhinged Man (think Herbert Lom in a straitjacket)
XIII - Death Warmed Over (The Zombie)
XIV - The Moonshiner
XV - The Televangelist or The Snake-Oil Salesman
XVI - The Flooded Basement
XVII - The Black Hole
XVIII - The Lunar Eclipse
XIX - The Solar Eclipse
XX - Judgment On Hold (The Grave Digger)
XXI - The Grain of Sand (also a world, according to William Blake)

ETA: My wife wants me to change Pedagogue to Pedophile to reflect what's going on in the Catholic Church, but I told her this is a family forum (sometimes the Addams Family, but still . . . ) On reflection, I did decide to change Trump V to something more flambouyant.

 

[tarotbear]

I had made a post - which seems to be missing altho I was assured it was not removed - in which I stated I felt it is/was more important to come up with the card to fill in for the 'missing trump' that is appropriate to the combination of cards than to worry about it's exact number. I believe the numbers on the Trumps were added long after the Trumps were created, anyway.

So, if we come up with an appropriate Trump, it will simply be assigned the number that is part of that combination.

This is all an intellectual exercise, because not only do we have to create the Trump, we also have to come up with it's explanation for the LWB!

 

[Barleywine]

I had made a post - which seems to be missing altho I was assured it was not removed - in which I stated I felt it is/was more important to come up with the card to fill in for the 'missing trump' that is appropriate to the combination of cards than to worry about it's exact number. I believe the numbers on the Trumps were added long after the Trumps were created, anyway.

So, if we come up with an appropriate Trump, it will simply be assigned the number that is part of that combination.

This is all an intellectual exercise, because not only do we have to create the Trump, we also have to come up with it's explanation for the LWB!

I appreciate that, I was just having some fun with the idea of "shadow trumps." Was it the post where you noted that, when the Trump numbers are reduced numerologically to match them up with the pips, they fall short of a perfect match by seven cards? Thus, those seven would represent the continuation of the Fool's Journey that we would have to invent. I believe that post was in a different thread.

 

[tarotbear]

I Was it the post where you noted that, when the Trump numbers are reduced numerologically to match them up with the pips, they fall short of a perfect match by seven cards? Thus, those seven would represent the continuation of the Fool's Journey that we would have to invent. I believe that post was in a different thread.

No - that WAS is a different thread - which is why I created this thread! Maybe I posted it there instead of here by mistake? No matter ... we will work this out!

I will point out that many, many moons ago when the First AT Collaborative Tarot was created that I created a 'Fake Card' to use as an example for the card creators to follow- 'card - upright meaning - reversed meaning.' The card was 'The Oligarchy.' It probably exists somewhere in the deep, deep archive files of AT.

ETA: The only reference I can find is a thread years later - "The Oligarchy" was a card about feeling victimized and was a cross between a French Tribunal and 'The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.'