Vieville deck-Reversed

[PIRUCHO]

1-This deck it is assumed as a reversed deck.
We have for example the case of LE MAT going towards to the left instead to the right as many historical decks.
Or XIII as Noblet.

2-But if it is a reversed,inverted deck,why the XXI card has ONLY the bull and the lion inverted,so not the Angel and the Eagle ?

 

[SolSionnach]

That's a good point, PIRUCHO. I'd not noticed that the 4 creatures were in those places!

Of course, there are many cards in this deck that are not reversals, but are rather completely different than the "standard" TdM: the Moon and the Sun, for instance... as well as Temperance, pouring into the second jar which is on the ground.

There is some discussion here: http://www.tarot-history.com/Jacques-Vieville/index.html but it doesn't address your question. Undoubtedly most of the cards were just copied backwards - but how to account for the details you mention?

 

[PIRUCHO]

Hello Sravana.

-Of course but this XXI card example let me thinking if really the XII is also inverted having in mind how the number is placed.

 

[SolSionnach]

Hello Sravana.

-Of course but this XXI card example let me thinking if really the XII is also inverted having in mind how the number is placed.

I have the same question, PIRUCHO... I've taken to putting that card in the deck "reversed" (proper orientation), no matter where or how the XII is placed. If you look closely at the card, you'll see that the oval stamp which appears on all the cards at the bottom is placed at the 'proper' end of the card so it's oriented correctly, in spite of the XII being IIX in consequence.

 

[Moonbow]

The disadvantage of using the copyright stamp, or library stamp, on cards to establish the whether the card is upright or not is that the position of the stamp is not consistent from deck to deck or even version to version and would have been down to one person's view of the uprightness of the card. Its a personal choice whether to use copyright stamp to establish whether a card is upright or not and in some cases it can hinder personal preference of how the card appears to us.

The Vieville is an extraordinary and special deck which leaves us with many questions and may even be the key to answering some one day. The engraver was certainly confused. Was he copying a set of cards or perhaps a woodblock, and simply made mistakes? Then again, his attention to some detail is very obvious.

 

[SolSionnach]

The disadvantage of using the copyright stamp, or library stamp, on cards to establish the whether the card is upright or not is that the position of the stamp is not consistent from deck to deck or even version to version and would have been down to one person's view of the uprightness of the card. Its a personal choice whether to use copyright stamp to establish whether a card is upright or not and in some cases it can hinder personal preference of how the card appears to us.

The Vieville is an extraordinary and special deck which leaves us with many questions and may even be the key to answering some one day. The engraver was certainly confused. Was he copying a set of cards or perhaps a woodblock, and simply made mistakes? Then again, his attention to some detail is very obvious.

Thanks for your reply, Moonbow*. I knew that the stamp was not original, but I guess I was giving it more importance than it actually has.

As far as the Vieville goes, I've been looking at it extensively in my daily draws thread for my IDS. I'm rather flummoxed by what I see with this deck, i.e. the reversals of many of the trumps... but then, amazingly, the Emperor is not flipped! WTF? The deck is such a puzzle that way... not to mention the trumps which are completely different from the TdM, plus those amazingly expressive pips. The 3 Deniers absolutely kills me. What a riot that card is!

 

[PIRUCHO]

So why LE PAPE is not a reversed card if it is a reversed deck ?
-We are talking about an entirely reversed deck or not from a block ?

-So again why only the Bull and the Lion are reversed at XXI ?