conurelover
Mystical Origins of the Tarot by Paul Huson.
Without the book I am noticing more and more tiny details in the trumps I didn't notice before. Kind of drives me crazy but makes me want to know more!
Soprafino Tarot
Mystical Origins of the Tarot by Paul Huson.
Without the book I am noticing more and more tiny details in the trumps I didn't notice before. Kind of drives me crazy but makes me want to know more!
DeToX
To correct my earlier post, it would indeed appear that the Soprafino Tarot by Il Meneghello is not the only reproduction of this tarot deck. Of course the Lo Scarabeo The Classic Tarot is another facsimile.
The decks do look identical bar the colours on the LoS deck which seem brighter - with the exception of the IIII card (Emperor). The LoS version is coloured completely differently and so it would presumably suggest that it was a facsimile of a different printing batch of the deck. That might also explain the differences in colour of the cards, as I find it hard to believe that LoS could/would doctor the colours to such a degree. The stains on the LoS deck are in different places to that of the Il Meneghello deck so at the very least they were scanned from different decks of the same batch.
I have read that the staining on the Il Meneghello deck was introduced in various places to give it an antique appearance, here on Aeclectic I believe, although I suspect that this in hindsight is probably misinformation and that the deck that Il Meneghello used for the facsimile was probably stained just like this, i.e. an exact facsimile. I know the card stock that IM use is sometimes pre-stained or they introduced a vintage feel into some of the decks e.g. 1987 - Classico Tarocco di Marsiglia - but not sure if this applies to the Soprafino or not.
The funny thing is that putting some of the cards side by side, in places it looks like the orange/brown staining along the borders has been introduced whilst on the sheet before cutting as the stains match up on many cards from the left of one card to the right of the other. This isn't the case for the cards you'd expect to be on every 'row' of a sheet, but still, it is intriguing. It could of course be just staining in similar places on each card to the deck when stacked and exposed to the elements, but it isn't consistent all the way through the deck. If the cards were jumbled consistently over time or even always stored in exact sequence, we would expect a slightly different pattern of staining that is in the order of the cards we see today. If it was done deliberately, which is presumably unlikely, then it could of course have been done in the 19th century but I'd very much doubt Dellarocca's printing shop would have released such a thing! I emailed Il Meneghello to ask them if they did any 'sexing' up of the card fronts.
The decks do look identical bar the colours on the LoS deck which seem brighter - with the exception of the IIII card (Emperor). The LoS version is coloured completely differently and so it would presumably suggest that it was a facsimile of a different printing batch of the deck. That might also explain the differences in colour of the cards, as I find it hard to believe that LoS could/would doctor the colours to such a degree. The stains on the LoS deck are in different places to that of the Il Meneghello deck so at the very least they were scanned from different decks of the same batch.
I have read that the staining on the Il Meneghello deck was introduced in various places to give it an antique appearance, here on Aeclectic I believe, although I suspect that this in hindsight is probably misinformation and that the deck that Il Meneghello used for the facsimile was probably stained just like this, i.e. an exact facsimile. I know the card stock that IM use is sometimes pre-stained or they introduced a vintage feel into some of the decks e.g. 1987 - Classico Tarocco di Marsiglia - but not sure if this applies to the Soprafino or not.
The funny thing is that putting some of the cards side by side, in places it looks like the orange/brown staining along the borders has been introduced whilst on the sheet before cutting as the stains match up on many cards from the left of one card to the right of the other. This isn't the case for the cards you'd expect to be on every 'row' of a sheet, but still, it is intriguing. It could of course be just staining in similar places on each card to the deck when stacked and exposed to the elements, but it isn't consistent all the way through the deck. If the cards were jumbled consistently over time or even always stored in exact sequence, we would expect a slightly different pattern of staining that is in the order of the cards we see today. If it was done deliberately, which is presumably unlikely, then it could of course have been done in the 19th century but I'd very much doubt Dellarocca's printing shop would have released such a thing! I emailed Il Meneghello to ask them if they did any 'sexing' up of the card fronts.
Aeric
I find the Soprafino so exquisite that I only use it for personal readings, and it's the one deck of which I take the most care. I'm the kind of reader who likes to really use my decks and give them a lot of wear to show their age, but Soprafino is just one that I can't bring myself to treat as anything less than a fragile bird. The care that went into this deck is so evident that I have to treat it with more respect than my mass-produced decks.
My substitute that I beat up for clients is the Ancient Italian. I adore this deck and have used it so much, and for so long, that the white on the backs has almost turned as yellow as the card faces, mixing with the green floral pattern to truly look aged. I find the choice of title rather odd as 1835 isn't really "ancient" by world history. Even by Tarot history standards that we know of, it's sort of the Middle Ages, but the height of Tarot production in Italy. If I spoke Italian, I would have taken this deck with me to Italy and read for people with it.
My substitute that I beat up for clients is the Ancient Italian. I adore this deck and have used it so much, and for so long, that the white on the backs has almost turned as yellow as the card faces, mixing with the green floral pattern to truly look aged. I find the choice of title rather odd as 1835 isn't really "ancient" by world history. Even by Tarot history standards that we know of, it's sort of the Middle Ages, but the height of Tarot production in Italy. If I spoke Italian, I would have taken this deck with me to Italy and read for people with it.
DeToX
The Grumppenberg Soprafino deck was first published in 1835 but the Ancient Italian Tarot Avondo Brothers deck is from 1880. So it is even less 'ancient' than you thought
Aeric
Cheeky marketers!
DeToX
'The entire tarot tradition in Italy contained in a single deck' - that's quite a big fat claim to put on the deck box LOL
periwinkling
Ok, now I'm really torn. I don't have the money for the Soprafino, and I also don't like the faux staining. I fell in love with the deck from the tarot bot app (but now I have an iDevice ), were the colors are really crisp and clear, and that seems to be similar to the Classic. I would trim the deck... But I don't like the backs. (and they would be asymetrical, the horror... also, I hate it when a card from the deck is on the back. for me it seems to detract energy from that card when it does show up in a reading)The Ancient Italian seems to have some pretty patterned backs... But the cards themselves are more drab, or what? They're not as crisp as the Classic? What to get?
), were the colors are really crisp and clear, and that seems to be similar to the Classic. I would trim the deck... But I don't like the backs. (and they would be asymetrical, the horror... also, I hate it when a card from the deck is on the back. for me it seems to detract energy from that card when it does show up in a reading)The Ancient Italian seems to have some pretty patterned backs... But the cards themselves are more drab, or what? They're not as crisp as the Classic? What to get?Aeric
Yes I don't like when a card from the deck is a back, as if every card becomes subliminally marked with that particular card's qualities. The AI's back is gorgeous.
In all, if it's really art for art's sake that you're sacrificing, I'd go for the AI. The art is less crisp and clear, but I wouldn't expect a deck that survived from 1880 to present to look much different. The Classic's words and back just make it feel less like a professional deck and more like a modern training deck with historical artwork. I think of the Quick and Easy Tarot with Italian art when I look at it.
In all, if it's really art for art's sake that you're sacrificing, I'd go for the AI. The art is less crisp and clear, but I wouldn't expect a deck that survived from 1880 to present to look much different. The Classic's words and back just make it feel less like a professional deck and more like a modern training deck with historical artwork. I think of the Quick and Easy Tarot with Italian art when I look at it.
DeToX
Ok, now I'm really torn. I don't have the money for the Soprafino, and I also don't like the faux staining. I fell in love with the deck from the tarot bot app (but now I have an iDevice
The review on AT for the Soprafino tarot states that there is faux staining:
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/soprafino/review.shtml
In my previous posts I assumed this was correct but then studying the Dotti tarot, it didn't show this type of staining, so I wondering if it was really true or not. Having checking with Il Meneghello, they have stated that they are exact facsimiles with nothing added, so the statement in the AT review would appear to be 'faux' ;-)
Having said that, I rather like the clarity and larger size of The Classic Tarot and I'm sure one could live with the titles along the side - the Grimaud TdM has these and no one complains about these. The card backs aren't optimal perhaps but as all the cards are the same I am not sure how much difference it makes in practical terms. If someone was to do readings with both decks back to back, with no prejudice in mind, it might say more about this. I think they are both great decks.
I personally prefer the AIT overall. Most of the majors in the ST are prettier and more expressive I must admit in certain respects, e.g. Hermit, but some of the AIT's are superior overall IMO e.g. Temperance and The Star. The minors - I much prefer the AIT's, and the courts are overall more to my liking although in places I can see that the ST's are more expressive and detailed. I think the AIT's card backs are similar to some of the other LoS decks, they have a similar pattern. I am fairly neutral about it, it's quite attractive but doesn't really get my juices flowing.
Le Fanu
Does it? I wrote it and had to go back and reread it and maybe I'm missing something but I don't think I mentioned that. I wrote about the blemishes and acid stains being retained...
I have read and reread a few times to try and find what you refer to.
ETA; just seen. It is in the upper part. I didn't write that. I honestly don't think the stains are fake but would have to see an original to verify. I can't see Meneghello doing that to be honest.
