The problem with many decks...

[Ipseity]

I know I shouldn't hate on unillustrated pips so much, but there's one deck I bought for the collection value that I found highly disappointing because of it's use of unillustrated pips. The Manga Tarot. Cute images, looked like it had the potential to introduce a lot of kids to Tarot, but really? How many kids are going to slog through unillustrated pips that all look exactly the same except for the number of items? Very disappointing. I'm still on the lookout for a nice deck for children.

 

[Zephyros]

b) we don't agree with the creator's choices, i.e astrology in the MAAT or Crowley's Star & Emperor astrological switch

That is something that turns me off most decks, not thinking things through. The Star/Emperor switch, while maddeningly incomprehensible, at least has some internal justification behind it, and it isn't just random. Many other decks, though, just do things with no consideration for the overall structure and, dare I say it, for the "coolness" factor." Anything can be great, as long as there is some thought behind it. Esoterics are a spiritual science, and things need to be demonstrated and documented, otherwise it really is all mumbo-jumbo.

 

[WolfyJames]

I know I shouldn't hate on unillustrated pips so much, but there's one deck I bought for the collection value that I found highly disappointing because of it's use of unillustrated pips. The Manga Tarot. Cute images, looked like it had the potential to introduce a lot of kids to Tarot, but really? How many kids are going to slog through unillustrated pips that all look exactly the same except for the number of items? Very disappointing. I'm still on the lookout for a nice deck for children.

99% of asian tarot decks have no illustrated minors. You cannot really blame the artist to do what everyone else is doing in Asia in term of tarot minors, they do not illustrate the minors It's the equivalent of complaining about the Tarot de Marseille decks not having illustrated minors. The sole asian tarot deck that I know is fully illustrated is the Lunatic Tarot.

 

[Mallah]

Sounds like "pip decks" are holding their own in the tarot world...I love them, myself...love both ways...sort of like different operating systems. Or Automatic vs. Manual Transmissions.

I think though that that original thought here was not "the problem with many decks is they have unillustrated minors" but that the minor arcana was not nicely done...sort of dashed off...it certainly doesn't take much to create a background and then create 10 images with a different number of pips in each! That's just cheap. That's what we were saying...that the effort just went down after the majors...

...but I think--I KNOW--that pips are not a "cop out" if they are done up right. There needs to be something to go on besides number and suit...but I suppose some readers memorize meanings or number/suit systems and it works for them (indeed there seem to be an infinite number of methods that "work".

I don't know if playing card readers use the patterns of the pips; i.e. the geometrical layout...seems to me like they don't. There's not that much to there to go off of....

but believe me, there's LOTS to go off of in a TdM, and there's no reason that can't be so in "non-scenic" pips.

I went with moodies in the deck I just created:
http://photobucket.com/wickwillowtarot

(hope this link is kosher w the mods)
They are not all up in there yet...but they are all done. (I'm photoshopping like crazy getting ready for the publisher)

I worked much longer on the minors than on the majors (after all there are more OF them...)

 

[Le Fanu]

That is something that turns me off most decks, not thinking things through. The Star/Emperor switch, while maddeningly incomprehensible, at least has some internal justification behind it, and it isn't just random. Many other decks, though, just do things with no consideration for the overall structure and, dare I say it, for the "coolness" factor." Anything can be great, as long as there is some thought behind it. Esoterics are a spiritual science, and things need to be demonstrated and documented, otherwise it really is all mumbo-jumbo.

Yes, I agree. It's like doing simultaneous equations at school and you can't just show your answer you must show how you got there for the flaw to be picked up along the way. Plus as regards the "maddening" Emperor/Star switch, it would take some guts - and a lot of knowledge - to pick holes in Crowley's system. I do trust his impressive knowledge, and my own critical thinking only goes so far in the face of great minds.

 

[Chiriku]

I think though that that original thought here was not "the problem with many decks is they have unillustrated minors" but that the minor arcana was not nicely done...sort of dashed off...it certainly doesn't take much to create a background and then create 10 images with a different number of pips in each! That's just cheap. That's what we were saying...that the effort just went down after the majors...

.

See: the Tarot des Femmes.

No, literally "see" it: do a search of this forum for the thread I started on the subject and you'll see some blurry pics. It is a perfect example of how a tarotist who generally likes pips (i.e. non-scenic Minors) can be repelled by the slapdash horror of a rushed, sloppy, on-the-cheap set of Minors.

I suspect that anyone who defends this deck ("it's so bad, it's delightful!")does so in order to be a "unique" contrarian, someone who prides themselves on claiming they find value where others see rubbish.

 

[Chiriku]

P.S. Your deck is looking great. Very appealing drawings and colors. Kudos.

 

[Aeon418]

Hc svnt dracones

Plus as regards the "maddening" Emperor/Star switch, it would take some guts - and a lot of knowledge - to pick holes in Crowley's system.

Unfortunately mere intellectual 'hole picking' is the norm. The problem with that approach is that Crowley's system is backed up by a practical system of self development, exploration, and attainment whereby you can confirm the attributions for yourself. But this requires a lot of effort and hard work. It's much easier to engage in theoretical arguments over the 'map' than it is to actually explore the 'country'.

Here be Dragons!

 

[Mallah]

.

See: the Tarot des Femmes.

No, literally "see" it: do a search of this forum for the thread I started on the subject and you'll see some blurry pics. It is a perfect example of how a tarotist who generally likes pips (i.e. non-scenic Minors) can be repelled by the slapdash horror of a rushed, sloppy, on-the-cheap set of Minors.

I suspect that anyone who defends this deck ("it's so bad, it's delightful!")does so in order to be a "unique" contrarian, someone who prides themselves on claiming they find value where others see rubbish.

Yeah those are pretty bad....

 

[tarotbear]

.

See: the Tarot des Femmes.

Can you provide a link?