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-   -   Book of Thoth Study Group: Part 1 - Section 1 (https://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=58192)

Ventrue
23-04-2006 15:35
So as ThROA is Malkuth is Physical Existence is 61x11 is Sexual Arousal?

So an main/key aspect of physical existence is sexual arousal?

is that kinda how gematria works? ouch my head hurts....or am i just up too late and making unwarranted assumptions?

Ven

Aeon418
23-04-2006 21:07
[QUOTE=Ventrue]Is it a tenet of Gematria that the hebrew alphabet was designed around this? I guess that is a chicken or the egg question, but Crowley would say the egg came first right? So is gematria the chicken or the egg?[/QUOTE]
Well, that's the whole point. Nobody knows. It's a complete mystery.
Crowley does mention this on page 4 when he says it goes against common sense, the facts of history, and what we know about the formation of language.

Here's a simple example of gematria.

Father = AB = 3
Mother = AM = 41
Child = YLD = 44 (41 + 3)

Is that just a coincidence ? Or is it intentional? Who knows. But as Crowley points out, constructing a language on mathematical lines goes against common sense, history, and the rules of language formation.

EDIT: Looking at the corresponding Tarot cards can shed light on these words. This is also the case for most other hebrew words.

Aeon418
23-04-2006 21:35
[QUOTE=Marion]If I understand this correctly, he postulates that the entire Hebrew language is based on numerical values.[/quote]
Correct. It's a fact that the hebrew language is based on number because unlike us the hebrews didn't have a seperate alphabet and numerical system.
That's why I pointed out earlier that gematria is [b]not[/b] numerology.
[QUOTE=Marion]I assume that the zodical attributions including the famous Star/tzaddi discussions are expanded later, as this is more or less just the introduction.[/QUOTE]
Yes.(p.8,9,10) That's why he sets the stage with the history of the Golden Dawn.

Aeon418
23-04-2006 21:45
[QUOTE=fools_fool]By "magical expansion" I have no doubt Crowley is referring to sexual arrousal.[/QUOTE]
Sex is certainly implied as that is the uniting of opposites to create a third thing. But to say it only means sex would be a limitation.

For example, I pick up my copy of the Book of Thoth. I unite my mind to the words on the page. The result is knowledge. (or frustration :D)

rachelcat
24-04-2006 01:00
Hi all. Everyone is making good points. I'm learning alot already!

I have more questions. Big surprise.

I am not a big fan of gematria or numerology. I think you can make anything mean or relate to anything. Does DOG = GOD? Or does it only in Hebrew? Anyway, I'm still trying to follow along.

Thanks for the information on the the ThROA thing. I was totally off track, thinking C. was using ThROA to mean tarot. But if it means Gate and Malkuth, then Nothing x magical expansion makes sense--From nothing by magical expansion through the sephiroth to Malkuth, manifestation.

So is this just an example of how gematria works?

If we are busy calculating and figuring everything out by numbers, where is the proof for 0 = 2? (Thank you also for the explanation of what that actually means!)

(I am really looking forward to continuing this study. I even took notes. The proudest day of my life was when my son called me a total nerd, so now you know where I'm coming from . . .)

Aeon418
24-04-2006 01:25
[QUOTE=rachelcat]I am not a big fan of gematria or numerology. I think you can make anything mean or relate to anything. Does DOG = GOD? Or does it only in Hebrew? Anyway, I'm still trying to follow along.[/quote]
I'll say it again :D.... Gematria is not Numerology. Why? Because Hebrew letters are numbers. In western numerology we assign numbers to letters. But our alphabet has no connection with numbers, so any attribution is completely arbitary.
[QUOTE=rachelcat]Thanks for the information on the the ThROA thing. I was totally off track, thinking C. was using ThROA to mean tarot. But if it means Gate and Malkuth, then Nothing x magical expansion makes sense--From nothing by magical expansion through the sephiroth to Malkuth, manifestation.[/quote]
Crowley is trying to point out a link, or inner identity, between the two words. But saying there is a link isn't the same as saying they are the same.
[QUOTE=rachelcat]So is this just an example of how gematria works?[/quote]
It's one form of gematria. Basically hebrew words that have the same numeric value are linked in some way or another.
For example, in a previous post I mentioned the gematria of Father, Mother and Child. Child, YLD = 44, that is also the numeration of the hebrew for Blood, DM. Can you see how they are connected?
[QUOTE=rachelcat]If we are busy calculating and figuring everything out by numbers, where is the proof for 0 = 2?[/quote]
0=2 has nothing to do with gematria. It was merely Crowley's mathematical expression of the Universe - everything, out of nothing via pairs of opposites. Put all the opposites back together and you end up with nothing again. It gets rid of the idea that there has to an original "ONE" who created everything. ;)

Alta
24-04-2006 01:30
Your replies to rachelcat were clarifying for me as well. Sometimes it is hard to even pose the questions. :(

Aeon418
24-04-2006 01:36
[QUOTE=Marion]Your replies to rachelcat were clarifying for me as well. Sometimes it is hard to even pose the questions. :([/QUOTE]
I'm hoping that some of the other knowledgeable Thoth-ites out there are going to chime in as well.

Sometimes I'm terrible at explaining things. :D

rachelcat
24-04-2006 03:18
[QUOTE=Aeon418]Crowley is trying to point out a link, or inner identity, between the two words. But saying there is a link isn't the same as saying they are the same.[/QUOTE]

Duh. TARO, ROTA, TORA, and TROA. Got it! (I've never seen TROA in this context, only ATOR, interpreted as the goddess Hathor.)

[QUOTE=Aeon418]0=2 has nothing to do with gematria. It was merely Crowley's mathematical expression of the Universe - everything, out of nothing via pairs of opposites. Put all the opposites back together and you end up with nothing again. It gets rid of the idea that there has to an original "ONE" who created everything. ;)[/QUOTE]

Wow. I'll have to think about this for a while. Interesting way to express the Buddhist concept of emptiness. There is no ONE. There is just everything, which is empty of separate self-existance, so really there's just nothing. Emptiness is form; form is emptiness. There are so many different ways to tell the same truth!

Thanks, Aeon418! I feel like a ray of sunshine has hit the top of my head! (Kind of like a lightbulb, but more philosophical!!)

Ok, not to be a total smart-ass (or to jump too far ahead in the study thread), BUT it also looks like C. says 0 = 1 (that is, Fool = Aleph). Hmmm.

Abrac
24-04-2006 03:36
[QUOTE=Aeon418]Sex is certainly implied as that is the uniting of opposites to create a third thing. But to say it only means sex would be a limitation.[/QUOTE]

Granted, it is limiting. But isn't that the idea? We are discussing Crowley, are we not? "Magical expansion" does, of course, refer to the expansion of consiousness, but for Crowley, the way to do this was through sex magic.

One only has to consider that the OTO, the primary vehicle for the dissemination of "Crowleyism"(Thelema)throughout the world, is an organization entirely dedicated to the practice of sex magic.

-fof


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