Ethics on Where to Read Cards

seafra re. Bible reading - If someone is reading ANY religious material in the normal way someone reads (quietly, to oneself) and is prevented from doing so -- that's a possible legal issue.

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Thinking about this quite seriously.... This is generalised and not aimed at anyone in particular... just throwing it out there... To me, the spiritual guidance and solace that I get from the Tarot cards is no different to the spiritual guidance and solace others get from their Bible. Okay, it is said by some that the Tarot is not a religion.... Granted, it's not an accepted mainstream religion... but....... The definition of religion is having a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny...

Plenty of non mainstream religions about the place.... (I wasn't brought up as a Christian or in any mainstream religion).... Who is to say that I as a Tarot believer don't view the Tarot as my religion? That I don't draw to my Higher Power for guidance through the Tarot? Would it not in that case mean that my Tarot cards for me are my equivalent to the Christian 'Bible'?

I realise there is somewhat of a hole in that argument by mainstream values, but maybe not... who is to say what I can and cannot have and use as a means to get close to my Higher Power? It's my Religion, it's my Belief, it's my Truth... People talk to their 'God' (Higher Power) and ask for help with everyday living issues through meditations (prayer) and by reading their Bibles. No different than I talk to and seek help from my 'God' (Higher Power) through mediations (prayer) and reading my Tarot cards...

'God' (Higher Power) exists for other Beliefs too, and not just for the accepted mainstream ones...

Meaning, someone could be using their Bible at a table silently reading and asking for inner guidance with their hands discreetly in the prayer stance on their lap. Same like I could be sitting silently at the next table with my cards drawn discreetly in my hands on my lap reading them one at time, asking for similar inner guidance... Both us us in touch with our retrospective Higher Powers...

Why would the Bible reader be seen as being 'right' and me as being 'wrong'?

Welf

Fudugazi said:

In that case, I fail to see your point about people fearing tarot readers.

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Get the ACLU to win a case making Tarot reading the equivalent of a sacred text and there wouldn't be a darned thing anyone could do about you reading cards in the lobby.

My point -- which, honestly, I've typed in several times in this thread and probably more eloquently -- is that in a small, busy lobby in the hotel of a small WASPish New England town that George Washington slept around in, I would not allow any activity that might make the other guests uncomfortable. Our efforts are put into preventing problems. Things I would not permit in the small without corners lobby include (and I've typed this before here, really) working with voodoo dolls, kneeling and facing mecca, praying aloud, and the like. These activities can be done in the privacy of the room you've rented.

You make a good point, Welf.

As a matter of fact, many Wiccans regard tarot cards as their religious material, sanctified and consecrated on their altars and used for spiritual purposes, which include divination. Wicca is a valid religion, recognised as such. Equally, followers of the Golden Dawn and Thelema use tarot cards as religious material, along with others materials. They place the cards on the Tree of Life. It is as quiet and meditative as it comes, as an activity.

One day there will be a law case about this in America (as there is about everything else ). There was about the pentagram on the veterans' gravestone, which the army objected to - and Wicca won.


And once again, comparing the quiet laying down of cards to carrying out loud and obtrusive spiritual activities is absurd. I really don't get your point at all, Seafra - in New England or anywhere else. I have read cards in hotel lobbies in Washington and in Virginia DC and had absolutely no problem. If your lobby is as cramped as you make out, then I wouldn't even want to read there, it would obviously be inappropriate and uncomfortable. But not because it's tarot.

BTW, OT - if there are religious laws, would you not be prosecuted for stopping the Muslims from praying?

Welf said:

T

Why would the Bible reader be seen as being 'right' and me as being 'wrong'?

Welf

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American Civil Liberties Union is a league of lawyers that keep a very serious eye on the rights of Americans. They won the case about the right to read sacred texts in public and won the case about prohibiting bible distribution in public schools unless it is specifically for a religious studies class. And others.

You don't mess with the ACLU. If I stopped someone from reading a bible in the lobby -- and I kid you not -- both myself and the owner could be sued for interfering with their rights. BUT if they read it ALOUD they are infringing on my rights and I can stop them without worry of legal action.

I kid you not.

Fudugazi said:

One day there will be a law case about this in America (as there is about everything else ). There was about the pentagram on the veterans' gravestone, which the army objected to - and Wicca won.

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Yes. The ACLU fought for that.

Seafra said:

Things I would not permit in the small without corners lobby include (and I've typed this before here, really) working with voodoo dolls, kneeling and facing mecca, praying aloud, and the like. These activities can be done in the privacy of the room you've rented.

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Ok, well as long as you keep putting the Tarot back in the dark ages, hiding it in the back room of your hotel, thats where it will stay. All because of the all mighty dollar for your hotel. Though its interesting to think about this. How do you decide to pick and choose who to offend. I mean, if you asked me to remove the cards and I am a paying customer, that would offend me..But its ok to do it anyway because of your assumptions that someone else could be offended..Again, that would be me...I guess you are thinking in bulk....More people would be offend then not..

Fudugazi said:

really don't get your point at all, Seafra

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And I don't get yours. We must agree to disagree I'd think.

BTW, OT - if there are religious laws, would you not be prosecuted for stopping the Muslims from praying?

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I can stop him from praying in the lobby. Same as I can stop someone from reading the bible (ETA: aloud) in the lobby. Same difference in the eyes of the law.

Keep in mind we are talking about private property and Hotel Law (yeah, we have a whole branch of law for Hotels in the US).

direwolf336 said:

Ok, well as long as you keep putting the Tarot back in the dark ages, hiding it in the back room of your hotel, thats where it will stay. All because of the all mighty dollar for your hotel. Though its interesting to think about this. How do you decide to pick and choose who to offend. I mean, if you asked me to remove the cards and I am a paying customer, that would offend me..But its ok to do it anyway because of your assumptions that someone else could be offended..Again, that would be me...I guess you are thinking in bulk....More people would be offend then not..

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Reign it in a bit please? I think you may be crossing a line here. Thank you.

Seafra said:

Reign it in a bit please? I think you may be crossing a line here. Thank you.

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Not intending to cross lines or upset anyone. Just a straight forward observation and question. I am assuming you are taking this stance because you work there. Therefor your views are with the business that signs your check. As a manager you are protecting yourself from problems. You may have answered this already and I apologize if you have, but have you every asked the owners what they think about someone with Tarots cards in their lobby vs Bibles, breast-feeding ect....

direwolf336 said:

Not intending to cross lines or upset anyone. Just a straight forward observation and question. I am assuming you are taking this stance because you work there. Therefor your views are with the business that signs your check. As a manager you are protecting yourself from problems. You may have answered this already and I apologize if you have, but have you every asked the owners what they think about someone with Tarots cards in their lobby vs Bibles, breast-feeding ect....

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Please re-read my posts starting with my first on page one. I have stated several times that I am speaking here as the manager of a hotel in this thread and not as a card reader.

Speaking as a card reader I would call the desk of the hotel and ask if they would allow tarot reading in their lobby if such an activity was part of my trip. If they did not I would stay somewhere else.