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kenji  kenji is offline
Join Date: 11 Mar 2004
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
Posts: 397

Originally Posted by MikeH
Kenji. Thanks for the reference to book 3 of the "cahiers" and its connection to the Editions Dusserre booklet. Wow, all these people with the "cahiers" in front of them, a book virtually absent from libraries, or at least per WorldCat!
Hi MikeH
You can read the 1st "cahier" at the following site:
I have a reprint of the 1st and 2nd "cahiers" by Editions Jobert (1977).
The 3rd's photocopy I have is what I ordered from British Library.
And the 4th is contained in Jacques Halbronn's book (1993), as you may know.

Originally Posted by MikeH
As for your later discussion, Kenji, how do you know which version of card 35 comes from which source? According to Revak, Papus gave his reference as the "Dictionnaire," and Papus had "Naissance" as upright and "Chute" asreversed. Or did he misquote the "Dictionnaire" so as to correct its error? And how do you know what D'Odoucet wrote? Do you have his book, too? If not, could the change to "Chute" upright and "Naissance" reversed have started with "Orsini" in the 212 page book of c. 1838?
Unfortunately I don't have direct access to either of D'Odoucet or "Dictionnaire" (except the 1st volume of D'Odoucet's "Science des signes", which is included in Elie Alta's "LE TAROT EGYPTIENNE"). So this is my guess.

I think Mr Revak relied on "A Wicked Pack of Cards" by Decker et al on this point. WPC says about Papus' "Le Tarot divinatoire" as follows (pp.258-259):

"Chapter VI is entitled 'Detailed Study of the Divinatory Meanings of the 78 lames as given by Etteilla and d'Odoucet'; it copies the table of meanings found in the Dictionnaire synonimique,...."

It seems that here is a mistake. In this chapter VI Papus says as follows:

"Pour aider les travaux des veritable chercheurs nous avons resume en ce chapitre VI les travaux les plus ardus d'Etteilla et de son disciple d'Odoucet."

So Papus does mention Etteilla and D'Odoucet. But meanwhile, I can't find the words "Dictionnaire synonimique" anywhere in this book. (I may have missed it. Can anyone?) Here, "Etteilla" should mean the 3rd "cahier" in Papus' private collection, which is introduced here and there in this book. Not "Dictionnaire".

And as WPC itself admits, there are a few differences between "D'Odoucet" and "Dictionnaire synonimique". They are not completely identical.

"The second volume of the Science des signes is more concerned with the Tarot and is clearly inspired by the Dictionnaire synonimique (1791) of which it is a kind of summary. ...It only shows some minor divergences, e.g. when the Dictionnaire says 'Questionnant', D'Odoucet uses 'Consultant'." (WPC, p.107)

"The core of the Dictionnaire synonimique du livre de Thot is a 'Table des synonymes du livre de Thot' (pp. 19-57), a systematic exposition of Etteilla's 'feuillets', according to Etteilla's order. ...The first 'feuillet' is Etteilla ou le Questionnant, the second is Eclaircissemens, the third one Propos, and so on. Logically, Folie is numbered 0 and placed between no. 21 (Dissension) and no. 22 (Homme de campagne)." (WPC, pp. 110-111)

Now have a look at the LWB of Editions Dusserre's GRAND ETTEILLA by Mr Jean-Marie Lhote. It says he "chose" three sources as "Origine des textes". They are Etteilla's "cahiers", D'Odoucet's "Science des signes", and "Dictionnaire synonimique". And see the pages 39 - 73. This section is titled "TABLE DES SYNONYMES DU LIVRE DE THOT SUIVANT L'ORDRE DES FEUILLETS", which is virtually identical to the name above Decker et al mentioned. The 1st "FEUILLE" is "Etteilla ou le Questionnant" (not "Consultant"), and No. 0 "Folie" is put between the 21st and the 22nd, not at the last. And in addition, the synonym for the uprighted 35th feuillet is "Chute".

On the other hand, in the chapter VI of Papus' "Le Tarot divinatoire", the 1st lame is given the synonym "LE CONSULTANT", and the lame "FOLIE" is placed as the 78th. And unlike the table above, he gave the 35th lame "NAISSANCE" when uprighted.

Thus, I feel it is natural to think Papus referred to D'Odoucet, not "Dictionnaire". And accordingly, in terms of the 35th card problem, Julia Orsini may have followed the tradition of "Dictionnaire synonimique" (she put the "folie" card as the 78th, though.)

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