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MikeH  MikeH is offline
Join Date: 03 Nov 2007
Location: Oregon USA
Posts: 443

Sorry for not crediting you on Blocquel having a shop in 1809. You did tell me about the Grand Jeu de Dames thread. But I guess I didn't read the part about Blocquel (; in any event I can't remember reading it; I only remember Huck's version here. I apologize.

And thanks for the question, about Blocquel/Lismon vs. D'Odoucet. What I was saying is that the postulated D'Odoucet deck, the one on Andrea's site and in Kaplan vol. 1, is exactly the same as Etteilla's original deck, as seen in DDD, as far as we can see from the pictures given, except for the sunburst on card 1. That seems to have been someone's, probably d'Odoucet's, innovation.

The reason they are exactly the same with that one exception is that D'Odoucet probably had Etteilla's original plates. DDD say on p. 104 that by February of 1792 "Etteilla's stock had fallen into his hands." At the very least, he had Etteilla's stock of decks, because "in 1792, D'Odoucet was selling Etteilla's engraved Tarot with his address written in pen instead of Etteilla's".

The Blocquel-Caustaux c. 1838 production is definitely from different plates. The print outside the pictures is different, and many details inside the picture are different too, in probably every card. Often this is a matter of shading and slight variations in placement of figures, or parts of figures. But the Temperance, Prudence, Magician, and Chariot pictures are quite different. The designs on the numeral cards are different, too.

In the keywords, and also the "Julia Orsini" synonyms, what I am saying is that the c. 1838 Etteilla II by Blocquel-Caustaux probably followed de la Salette. That's something that others pointed out, not me--you, for one, made the point about the Ace of Batons when I first entered this thread, and Kenji made the point about the difference between de la Salette and D'Odoucet on that card. Whether de la Salette's or D'Odoucet's vision is closer to Etteilla at the end of his life, I don't know. I haven't yet been able to read any of Etteilla's post-1788 work (assuming Depaulis's cards were designed in that year).

And I am saying that the picture part of the Blocquet-Castaux-"Orsini"-Lismon-Grand Etteilla II card number 1 is an accurate reflection of Etteilla's original card number 1, unlike the postulated D'Odoucet's.

The only "new" information, at least on Aeclectic threads that I know about, is that D'Odoucet is probably responsible for the sunburst. Even that isn't exactly new, because it's been in the "Tarot, History, Magic" essay for some time (actually, I don't think it's there now, since I asked Andrea about it). However that essay didn't present any reasons for why it could be true. That's what I was trying to do.
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