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MikeH  MikeH is offline
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Join Date: 03 Nov 2007
Location: Oregon USA
Posts: 443
MikeH 

No need to apologize, Corodil. You’ve done a great service, taking much time and effort. Others can carry on. For me, I translate primarily because I want to understand the text, and I might as well share it with others; also, that way my understanding can be corrected when it is uncertain or wrong.

It seems to me that one way I can make the translations of the keywords more useful is to give in brackets how various published sources have translated the words, when the translations are different from mine. That way people have more information. And of course if others favor a different translation than I do, I encourage them to indicate their preferences in posts, as well as any other corrections. (And Kwaw, the problem about "force majeur" for me is still, how do you translate it in the sentence "Si le soit-disant Diable vient les pieds en haut, la force majeure est moindre"?

Here are the translations available to me:

S = Stockman’s translation of Papus, on the cards; for the court cards, there is nothing at the top of the cards, but several words or phrases on the right side, of which some are Papus's invention and some seem to derive from Etteilla. For the number cards, one keyword is at the top of the card and another at the bottom.

S in list = Stockman's translation of Etteilla's word-list given by Papus; the first word often corresponding to the keyword; other words in the list given if relevant to the other sources or expand the meaning.

R = Revak's translation of Etteilla's word list in Papus, online, the first word and other words if relevant.

F = translation by France-Cartes (aka Grimaud) on their 1969 cards, which also has the French. If their French keyword is different from Etteilla's, I will give the French first.

D = Editions Dusserre’s translation (in the booklet with their Grand Etteilla III deck); it also has the French, which I will give if different from Etteilla's.

DDD = Decker, Dummett, and Depaulis, Wicked Pack of Cards (p. 94). They give no translations for the courts or reverseds, but do have the French for six of the batons.

I only list these translations when they are different from the one I have chosen. I also have a c. 1840 book by "Julia Orsini", in French only, with similar word-lists, in case of unclarities. Its keywords are the same as in D.

If this idea is not objectionable, I will go back and edit the previous post accordingly. I might put these alternative translations n smaller print, if I knew the code.

For the suit cards, Etteilla has a special section later for their reversed meanings. I will compare his 1782 meanings with the other sources when we get there.
Quote:
The swords in their positions.

Nº. 50. The King of sword, Man of the Law (*15). [S on side: Warrior, Man of Action, Man of Justice, Dark or Red-Haired Man; S in list: man of the cloth; R Man of the Law; F Man of Law; D Legal Profession]

Nº. 51. The Lady, Widowhood (6). [S on side: Woman of Action, Widow or Woman Acting on Her Own]

Nº. 52. the Knight, Soldier, Man of the sword, by estate. [S on side: Soldier; in list: soldier, with swordsman second; R Soldier, Man with a Sword; F Soldier; D Military]

Nº. 53. the Page [Valet], this is a Spy. [S on side: Enemy Envoy]

Nº. 54. the 10 of Swords, Tears. [S Weeping, F Sorrow]

Nº. 55. the 9. Cleric. [S Man of the Cloth, S in list: celibate...priest...monk or other religious devotee; R unmarried person...priest...monk...religious person; F Priest, D Clerical; DDD Ecclesiastic]

Nº. 56. the 8. Illness said of N. [S Damage, S in list criticism, unfortunate position, critical moment; R Criticism.. Regrettable Situation, Critical Moment; F Critique = Criticism; D Critique = Critical; DDD Criticism] [In the 4th Cahier Supplement, p. 147, he changes this, or perhaps adds to it: "Moralement et physiquement. Lepre" = "Morally and physically. Leper.".]

Nº. 57. the 7. Hope. [F Esperance = Expectation]

Nº. 58. the 6. Envoy, Messenger. [S in list route....envoy, agent; R Road ...Envoy, Messenger; F and D, Route = Journey; DDD Journey]

Nº. 59. the 5. Loss.

Nº. 60. the 4. Solitude. [F Solitude = Loneliness; DDD Loneliness]

Nº. 61. the 3. Nun [Religieuse] (*16). [S Nun, S in list distance; R Estrangement [Removal]; F & D Eloignement = F Separation, D Removal; DDD Separation] [In the 4th Cahier supplement, p. 148, he adds Vestale, or "filles et femmes solitaire, ou qui se cloîtroient chez les premiers Egyptiens" = "solitary girls and women, or who cloistered themselves, for the first Egyptians"]

Nº. 62. the 2. Friendship.

Nº. 63. the 1. Crazy Love (*17). [S Mad Passionate Love; S in list extreme; R, F, D Extrème = Extreme] [In the 4th Cahier Supplement, p. 148, he changes the wording to "Extrême, avec Passion" = Extreme, with Passion"; DDD Pregnancy--which is the reversed keyword everywhere else.]

The coins in their positions.

Nº. 64. The King of coin, Dark-haired Man. [S on side: Man of the Interior, Man with Light Brown hair, Trader; S in list: dark man, merchant; R Dark Man, Shopkeeper]

Nº. 65. the Lady, Dark-haired Woman. [S on side: Woman of the Interior, Trader, Rich woman; S in list, R: dark woman, opulence]

Nº. 66. the Knight, Helpful man. [S on side: Traveler, Helpful man; S in list: useful; R Utility; F & D Utilité = F Usefulness; D Utility] [In 4th Cahier supplement, p. 148 he changes keyword to: "Objet, chose utile" = "Useful object, thing."]

Nº. 67. the Page [Valet], Dark-haired boy. [S on side: Envoy of Friends, Money Courier; S in list: dark-haired boy, study; R A Dark Youth, Economy]

Nº. 68. the 10. The house. [D Home]

Nº. 69. the 9. Effect. [R Result; F Effet = Bills, DDD Bill of Goods, D Effect]

Nº. 70. the 8. Dark-haired girl. [S in list dark-haired, passive; R A Dark Girl, Passive; F Fille Brune = Dark Girl, D Brown-haired girl; DDD Dark girl]

Nº. 71. the 7. Money. [DDD A little money]

Nº. 72. the 6. The present. [S in list: currently]

Nº. 73. the 5. Lovers or Mistress (7). [S Lover or master; S in list lover, mistress; R Lover, Mistress; F & D Amant ou Amante = F Lovers; D Lover; DDD Lovers]

Nº. 74. the 4. It's a gift. [S in list present, gift; R Charity, Present; F & D & DDD A Gift]

Nº. 75. the 3. Nobility. [S Nobility; S in list noble, important; R Important, Noble; F & D Noble = Noble; DDD Noble]

Nº. 76. the 2. Embarrassment. [S Embarrassment/ Awkward Position /Confusion; S in list difficulty, obstacle; R Embarrassment, Obstacle; F Difficulties; D Trouble]

Nº. 77. the 1. Perfect contentment. [F Absolute Harmony; DDD Perfect joy]

It is necessary now to interpret these Hieroglyphs, such as the Egyptians have attested them to us, when they are upside down.

The staves reversed.

Nº. 22. the King of Staves, it is a man naturally good, but severe [sévère], who most often waits for the right moment to correct. [S in list, R: good and austere man... indulgence (R Leniency)...tolerance; F & D Homme Bon et Sevère = Good and Just Man; DDD Homme Bon et Sevère]

Nº. 23. the Lady, this is a good woman, economical, virtuous, not bigoted, not a gossip, not concerned with being popular, not lazy, not greedy; so she is a really good woman, with a lot of presence [or spirit]. [S in list good woman, good, excellence; R Good Woman, Kind, Excellence; F & D Bonne Femme = Good Woman]

Nº. 24. the Knight: Disunion (8). [S in list disunion; R Discord; F & D Desunion = Disunion in F; Disunity in D]

Nº. 25. the Page [Valet]. False news. (9). [S News; S in list & R, announcement; F & D Nouvelle = News; DDD Nouvelle] [In 4th Cahier Supplement p. 148, keyword now "Nouvelle" = News.]

Nº. 26. the 10. Bars (10). [S Bars; S in list obstacle; R Obstacle...Bar; c. 1840 Obstacle...Barres; F & D Obstacle = Obstacle] [In 4th Cahier Supplement he changes keyword to Obstacle]

Nº. 27. the 9. Obstacles [traverses]. [S Setback; S in list setback, obstacle; R Crossing, Obstacle; F Hindrance; D Obstacles]

Nº. 28. the 8. Internecine disputes. [S Internecine Struggles; S in list domestic quarrel; R Domestic Dispute; F Domestic Dispute; D Internal Quarrels; DDD on card Dispute Intestiné]

Nº. 29. the 7. Indecision. [S in list indecisiveness; all others Indecision]
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*15. For the Egyptians of the reign of the true Mercury, those who commanded the Armies rendered justice, treated the sick and served at the Temples during peace.
*16. The Egyptians received as Vestals only those whose nature was unshaped; that was very rare.
*17. Crazy love; to moderate it, work 18 hours daily plowing [aux labours]; the remedy is Egyptian.
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