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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
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Originally Posted by Ronia View Post

Placidus is quadrant, right?... Which system are we supposed to use with these analyses? I was thinking whole sign or not?
Yes Placidus is a quadrant house system and I think it's the one that's most used in Atrology these days - the default if you like. The Hellenistic situation is slightly more complcated. They used both whole sign and quadrant houses. In the early part of the period quadrant houses were used for only one specific area - the length of life calculation. For everything else they used whole sign houses. This changed a bit over a period of 500 years or so. By the end of the period they were using both together for certain topic areas. So for example The Astronomic MC (the tenth cusp in a Placidus chart) would be combined with the tenth in a whole sign chart. Thus if the MC fell in the ninth house they might have predicted a career abroad or in the law but if it fell in the elventh house they may have predicted a career looking after the king's money (second from the tenth), or being a royal adviser.

The reason why quadrant houses have shown up at this stage is that the PNA would also feed into the length of life calculation, which in turn would allow some estimate of the time periods alloted to each of the Trigon Lords in the 'Ship' example. The Hellenisitic Astrologers used porphyry houses, most Placidus is a seventeenth century system, so would not have been used by these Astrologers.

When we get to Stages 3 & 4 I'll only be using whole sign houses because that would have been what they used during most of the Hellenistic period.

Originally Posted by Ronia
And this would fit the reality as my core values and who I am are in general in an accordance with my emotions and how I express them. Which is why I asked about the Sun/Moon relationship. However..... I think the square does play out too. And I've felt it, still feel it from time to time but with aging I started to deal with it better. Me as an individuality against me as a shared person, someone who is a giver. So, for the sake of the analysis, it looks like they are both true to a certain extend.
This situation is something I need to research from the Hellenistic point of view. It would be very interesting to see how they resolved it.

Originally Posted by Ronnia
I don't really pay much attention to terms like these as I try to assess the planet based on aspects mostly as I didn't know any of these instruments you use here. I just pointed out that a "malefic" and "benefic" are very shaky terms.
It's not so much that they are shaky as that the planets are not'automatons ' They don't always behave in a completely consistent manner delivering a completly consistent 'product'. Their core might remain the same but their expression can and is modified by circumsances (as shown in the chart)

Originally Posted by Ronia
Yes, that's precisely what I meant. Though I do not exclude or reject easily. In fact, I am a very patient person, surprisingly so. I give many chances before I reject. Apparently your Saturn in the 1st and conjunct Mars plays out more harshly.
Actually I'm a very giving and a very patient person (which is something we share so it must relate back to that Saturn in Leo placement) it's just that instinctively my first move is 'backwards' rather than 'forwards' - I think it's an instinctive reaction (Saturn is in close opposition to my Moon, which he rules.

Originally Posted by Ronia
Sorry for all the pointing here and there, just trying to get a grasp of all this! I'm still willing to know which system we're using here - Placidus, whole signs or other? So I know how to treat Jupiter and Saturn, angular or not. In the beginning it looked to me you were using whole signs but if we take Saturn as 7th house, that would be Placidus?
Don't be sorry, your helping - by making me answre these questions I'm forced to consider things from a Hellenisitic point of view - please carry on, I find your observations both interesting in their own right and helpful.

To conclude on the Houses.

We will almost exclusively use whole sign houses - these are the every day system that Astrologers used to answer questions on the topical areas of life or the base for making forecasts. The only time quadrant houses will come up is in the PNA, so after that they get left behind and even in the PNA they are only a small input.

BTW I don't intend to go into the length of life calculation or a discussion on it. My view based on my own birth and subsequent life (and the lives of friends and relatives) is that modern medicine can render the calculation of little practical value.
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