Minderwiz
Tomorrow - Ana's ship, which is patiently waiting in the harbour to set sail.
OK, I got it now. When we get to Stages 3 & 4 I'll only be using whole sign houses because that would have been what they used during most of the Hellenistic period.
Yes, I find it interesting too. Which would prevail according to them – the sign trine or the degree applying square but in another sign…This situation is something I need to research from the Hellenistic point of view. It would be very interesting to see how they resolved it.
Agree. Just ancients sometimes sound a bit ultimative, that’s why I’m thinking it over.It's not so much that they are shaky as that the planets are not'automatons ' They don't always behave in a completely consistent manner delivering a completly consistent 'product'. Their core might remain the same but their expression can and is modified by circumsances (as shown in the chart)
Interesting that not only your Saturn is in Leo too but it also has a difficult relationship with your Moon… I’m starting to think if it’s possible that this is the key to the door.Actually I'm a very giving and a very patient person (which is something we share so it must relate back to that Saturn in Leo placement) it's just that instinctively my first move is 'backwards' rather than 'forwards' - I think it's an instinctive reaction (Saturn is in close opposition to my Moon, which he rules.
I’m glad my digging is helpful and thanks for all the explanations! Don't be sorry, your helping - by making me answer these questions I'm forced to consider things from a Hellenisitic point of view - please carry on, I find your observations both interesting in their own right and helpful.
Well… Is there a person out there who doesn’t need fortune to do well in life? I don’t think so. I think we all need some luck to really do well. If we want to, of course.I think that the analysis suggests that you need fortune to get through life without too many problems. Saturn is still trying to steer the ship but he's having to do it from a difficult position where he can't see clearly. He's doing his best but he needs some help to spot the opportunities or avoid the perils, and that's where Venus should assist.
Yes, true.Well as a child you don't think of the future consequences of your actions as a regular part of your decisions' The hospital treatment is in a sense beside the point as the accident has already happened, fortune has struck
Oddly enough, I started considering myself a lucky person only after I grew up and started planning more. LOL I have another guess here and it’s related to Mercury conjunct the Lot. It has nothing to do with Hellenistic astrology but it has to do with the mind – when I started thinking of myself as a lucky person, things started to work out although sometimes take quite a bit of time. Coincidence or not, but it’s a fact. Now, that’s more about modern psychology but exists in the chart.On your adult experience, I think we learn from our experiences, and your strategies are very much designed to minimize the need to depend on Fortune. I'm not sure Hellenistic Astrology allows for that adaption process, it seems to assume that you won't adapt your behaviour in the light of past experiences. Mind you I know some people who don't adapt.
These are also popular qualities for Scorpio Suns too. How do we know it’s Saturn playing and not the Scorpio Sun? I’m not sure.No we're just considering Venus as ruler of the Lot of Fortune' the planet that should help you devise strategies to maximise opportunity and avoid peril. She's not well placed for that role. Oddly Saturn does sextile the Lot of Fortune, and Saturn is very much the planet of ldiscipline, ong term planning, analysing and patience...all the qualities that you have cited. There's no link between Venus and Saturn by configuration which would be a good indicator of those qualities coming into play in the opportunities and perils anticipation. However some way or other that sextile with the Lot, seems to inject those qualities into your life.
Ah, OK, I got the Mars part now. It does look like each crew member is an officer under cover. LOLMars is a masculine planet which is why I used the masculine pronoun but I also typed Mercury when I meant Mars as the Bound Lord, I admit that' was confusing So again for the record Mars is Domicile Lord of the Sun and therefore the Oikodespotes (Managing Director) and Mars is also the Bound Lord of the Sun. As to to many officers, yes I agree ....especially with a crew of 7 LOL
Considering the fact that these were my child years, not very happy overall. There were, of course, happier times (especially the year of my first Jupiter return, this one was great!) but I didn’t have a happy childhood as per the issues with close women I wrote about. On top of that in September 1989 I lost the person who was my only parent for real and that was devastating. I fell into depression for a long time, also I found myself penniless at a very early age. But health issues were earlier, prior to 1983, when I was a baby and a very small child. When this 1983 period started I was already involved in sports. My injuries didn’t start immediately and weren’t worse than other people’s actually, they just became too many with the time (due to my own desire and ambition to push myself harder).The Hellenistic view is that life is a struggle between fortune, what befalls you and your attempts to influence the world around you - Spirit. You've had two significant Mars periods in your life to date
In terms of your own attempts to influence the world around you (Spirit), you had a Mars period from birth through to August 1990.
In terms of things that befall you or health issues (fortune) you had a Mars period from September 1983 through to June 1998. There's an overlap of about 6 years there. What were the flavour those six years.?
For the last 8 years of your Mars (fortune) period, you were in a Venus (spirit) period. Was that 8 years better than the preceding six years?
Looks like this one has been much happier overall. Although it had its challenges (I guess sub periods were playing there, like a very tough break up in 2003, new problems with the well known to me women in 2003-2004), it still brought many happy events and my second Jupiter return and Saturn return were in this period and it was glorious time in all departments.From 1998 to 2008 you had a Jupiter period in terms of fortune, or what befell you.
I hope it’s good.From 2018 (5 years away) you will enter a 25 year Lunar period in terms of Spirit.
That’s interesting… So, they didn’t pay much attention to the transits? Hm…Hellenistic Astrology does the 'heavy' but through recurring time periods. Each of the periods I mentioned above will have sub periods where there may be shifts of emphasis, and periods where Mars is actually to the fore, or for that matter Venus or Jupiter - they might not always show up as transits but they set the tone. Or so those Astrologers believed.
I’ve been told Mars is the Almuten of my chart. But because I mainly look at transits, progressions and directions, I haven’t been able to put him even close to Saturn and even Jupiter in terms of effect on my life. Even now he’s been doing many aspects by transit and he’s making aspects by progressions and directions, we’ll see what he’ll produce this time.I must admit I rushed that part, taking the list from Delphic Oracle, The crux of the matter is that the 'ruler of the chart' doesn't have to be the 'ruler of the Ascendant' and indeed right the way through the traditional period there were attempts to identify the 'Almuten of the Chart' or the ' Lord of the Geniture' - the planet that will be the most powerful or influential. The ruler of the Ascendant is not debarred from being the strongest planet but it's by no means guaranteed.
OK, but I don’t understand how I should see them? I got a bit lost in all these captains and officers. What are Moon and Mars supposed to do? Steer the ship? I don’t think Mars is so powerful, I don’t know. As about the Moon… I do feel her, of course, I’ve always thought she’s one of the strongest planets in my chart. I actually think she’s only competing with the Sun (I put aside Saturn for the moment as he’s strongly felt by transits but he’s never been in conflict with my Sun, with my core desires, despite their square). I know the Sun is not strong based on these analyses but that’s how I’ve felt it. If Mars injects power in the Sun through the trine… may be. May be Mars is not playing with the Moon so much as with the Sun while the Sun and the Moon share the same values but have a bit of an uneasy relationship… A bit like a square in synastry where there is attraction but there is also friction. Can’t live with or without you, kind of…Now I put a question mark after the Mars/Moon pairing because I wanted your view on that pairing.
I’m too emotional and too much depending on intuition and feelings for this pair to be my captains, IMHO. There must be a strong female planet somewhere in the steering team.Mars/Saturn might have been a possible pairing too. especially as you are now in a Saturn 'fortune' period through to 2027.
Are you still Taking Guinea Pigs? If so, i would like to be one
Is there any rules or info i should Provide you with besides the basics???
Well… Is there a person out there who doesn’t need fortune to do well in life? I don’t think so. I think we all need some luck to really do well. If we want to, of course.
Ronia said:Oddly enough, I started considering myself a lucky person only after I grew up and started planning more. LOL I have another guess here and it’s related to Mercury conjunct the Lot. It has nothing to do with Hellenistic astrology but it has to do with the mind – when I started thinking of myself as a lucky person, things started to work out although sometimes take quite a bit of time. Coincidence or not, but it’s a fact. Now, that’s more about modern psychology but exists in the chart.
Ronia said:These are also popular qualities for Scorpio Suns too. How do we know it’s Saturn playing and not the Scorpio Sun? I’m not sure.
Ronia said:That’s interesting… So, they didn’t pay much attention to the transits? Hm…
Ronia said:I’ve been told Mars is the Almuten of my chart. But because I mainly look at transits, progressions and directions, I haven’t been able to put him even close to Saturn and even Jupiter in terms of effect on my life. Even now he’s been doing many aspects by transit and he’s making aspects by progressions and directions, we’ll see what he’ll produce this time.
Ronia said:OK, but I don’t understand how I should see them? I got a bit lost in all these captains and officers. What are Moon and Mars supposed to do? Steer the ship? I don’t think Mars is so powerful, I don’t know. As about the Moon… I do feel her, of course, I’ve always thought she’s one of the strongest planets in my chart.
Ronia said:I’m too emotional and too much depending on intuition and feelings for this pair to be my captains, IMHO. There must be a strong female planet somewhere in the steering team.
Actually they are, and always have been, the qualities of a dignified or well placed Saturn. Saturn is the planet associated with a careful, rational, disciplined approach to life planning, especially long term planning, as Saturn is the planet of Time - of self restraint or control, operating within our own clear boundaries.
As I see it Mars sets the destination, Moon sets how the destination is to be achieved but Saturn still steers the ship and is first officer. The captain usually delegates the day to day management of steering anyway and the First Officer is usually the person who has hands on control, under the command of the captain. Whether this is a useful analogy is another matter. I too have doubts about it. I think that if I use it at all, I'll do it from the point of view of running a company and surviving in the market - a sort of Ronia PLC, LOL But that's because it's an analogy that fits to my own career and experience in teaching.
Oh, so now I have to add Mercury to the steering crew? I think there are no planets left out of the steering band. LOL I'm just getting a bit suspicious. Too many options, too many ways... I hope the ship does have someone to work on it after all this. LOL