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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888

Originally Posted by Ronia View Post
I do insist on the Sun, you do keep playing for Saturn. LOL On top of that Saturn is in detriment and according to your analysis, even in the 8th. I actually meant that I'm more on the observing side. I do not possess the planning of a purely saturnian person. My planning is based on passion. I do set my eyes on something and I follow it, wherever it goes but I do prefer to remain unnoticed. It's hunting, not scheduling. Saturnian people do schedule (Lord of Time), I watch and wait. Then jump on the thing. There is a difference. One is a careful approach, the wisdom of Saturn is everyday wisdom, IMHO. The other is hunger, pure instinct. So, as the Sun is in Scorpio but the Asc is in Capricorn, I guess both these somehow have mixed.

I'm not sure about all these. As I wrote above, it seems we can find a way to make any planet in the chart a captain. I'm not convinced Saturn is the captain in my case either. The more I think about it, the less I see it... But the Moon alone is not convincing me either... Too watery, too emotional, too weaping... I actually can hardly stand the purely Cancerian nature, so the Moon alone couldn't work. May be the Saturn/Moon duo... But then from where comes the raw energy, the desire to compete and win, the hunger for competition? These are Marsian traits. I think it's not that simple as having one-two captains...
The Moon is not particularly watery or emotional in the tradition, that's a modern view. The Moon is exalted in Taurus, an Earth sign and Cancer is associated with the sea shore. Yes the Moon is traditionally moist but it ain't dripping wet Emotions can very across the planetary range, for example anger is martian,and sexual desire is venal. The Moon is not so much emotional as instinctual - she shows your instinctive, reactions or impulses. The Cancerian qualities you don't like, I guess are those that modern writers have imposed on it.

I said in an earlier post that my instinctive reaction was often to reject - a Saturn/Moon combination, though in my case there is an opposition between them, whereas you have an applying conjunction and Moon in dignity.

On Saturn in the eighth and in Detriment - Yes your Saturn is in the eighth by whole sign houses (and even in a quadrant system, whilst it might be in the seventh its influence is diminished by not being in the sign of the Descendant) The Moon however is in the Seventh and is ruler of the Descendant in both measures, it's applying to a conjunction with Saturn and the Moon's natural function is to include or gather in. Saturn has links, it links with Sun, it links with Moon, it links with Mercury and it links with Jupiter and it links with the Lot of Fortune. It might not be best placed to steer but it has possible lines of support, or to put it mildly it has connections (whether those connections work is another matter). Saturn is in sect, which is likely to make it a bit more reliable, It does have some essential dignity, it's in it's own decan and (for the Hellenistic and even Medieval Astrologers) it's one of the Trigon Lords of it's sign. The number scoring is a medieval introduction but on that basis, Saturn would score -1, in essential dignity - the wrong side of the line but only just.

Now I don't usually score triplicities in that way. I would not have given Saturn a score unless it happened to be the Triplicity Lord of Sect but I'm beginning to think that I should allow something more if it's one of the Triplicity Lords, even if not in Sect.

I'm also finding that the Trigons, Decans and Bounds or Terms, are more important in Hellenistic Astrology, than they are in the later tradition. Chris Brennan has suggested that it's possible the Trigon Lords were seen at one time as a competing system of dignities with rulership but later got merged in to a combined system. So Saturn might be tipped over the line into being 'dignified'. I'm not sure of that but it's something that at least provokes me to consider it.

Turning to the Sun on the other hand is far more general, it encompasses the 'whole' you - your will and is a sense your capacity to be yourself. The Sun is your sect light, though it's nature will play an overall role in your life, not so much on day to day basis with specifics but in setting something of the tone of your life. It's ruler Mars though is important and Mars can be very passionate (both in romantic and non-romantic things). Modern writers would see Mars as 'drive' The traditional stance is a bit more subtle but Mars does add a flavour, to put it mildly, to your experience of life.
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