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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
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Originally Posted by kalliope View Post
Okay, I'm trying to understand how Fitness, Energy, and Completion are fitting together here. Looking at the comment I've bolded above, is the below-average Completion score enough to overshadow the high Fitness and Energy scores with the result being that Mars can only "support completion" while not really initiating OR completing them? What's the use of all that Fitness and Energy that it's got then? Or was that comment solely with regards to the Completion score, and the Fitness and Energy components will factor in some other way? Am I making sense?
This is one of the areas that I am trying to get my head round, so if the explanation changes, it's because I've found something new. Firstly I think the Fitness/Energy/Completion framework coves more than one dimension. Specifically it feeds into the Length of Life calculation, as well as the general assessment of planetary strength and the areas of life that we are more familiar with.

At the moment, I am not planning to cover the Length of Life as I don't fully understand it to say the least and I certainly am not going field questions about 'how long will I live'. According to some of the material I should have had a very short life. As I'm in my mid 60's that's obviously not true. However I did have a 'traumatic' birth and I could have died at that point - in Hellenisitic times, I probably would have. The Length of Life calculation for some writers involves the use of 'Circumnabulations' a forerunner of Primary Directions, so part of the F/E/C is concerned with how effectively the planets add to or detract from your time here on Earth.

As I haven't disentangled this from the rest of the astrological use of F/E/C I have to be careful in drawing conclusions but I'd say as a first stab that Mars is full of potential but might not actually deliver as expected.

Originally Posted by Kalliope

This may be a really basic question, but I feel like I don't quite understand how the Hellenistic Astrologers (or any of the traditional astrologers, really) would define a "positive influence" in a life coming from a malefic planet. Does this simply mean that Mars will handle its Houses competently? Or that transits from Mars will be more so about initiation, action, and energy and less about Mars' more negative qualities (violence and accidents)? Or is it more specifically speaking about how, if it turns out to have a lot of responsibility manning my Ship (I'm thinking it will), that it will perform well?
Well a positive influence from Mars might make you more assertive (without being aggressive) might help to get engaged faster with problems or indeed general life, might give you more strength or 'courage' to handle the hard times. This could show up not just in the affaris of the houses Mars rules, but also as a more general trait to your character. It may also blend positively with other planets it has configurations with. And I'll be looking at some of those in Stage 3.

Originally Posted by Kalliope
I can agree with the Mercury/Mars assessment as "adding rational thought to Mars' drive." And while this could be too modern a spin on it, could you also characterize this conjunction as enjoying debate, being too aggressively rational in discussion, or perhaps being argumentative for argument's sake?
Well Firmicus states that Mars and Mercury together on the Ascendant by night make men (and presumably women) in charge of great religions, generals, heralds, guards and followers of emperors, or great administrators. So whilst not being debate oriented it certainly seems to be good.

Now I've used Firmicus there, and I've not allowed for other aspects to the pair. For Stage 3 I'll use other authors as well and try to interpret the configurations. Not all of them as I'd more than double the length of the thread on that one stage alone but for a selected topic.

Originally Posted by Kalliope
As for Saturn causing difficulties for them, how do aspects like these affect things for the Hellenistic astrologers? Do you just mean that Saturn could hinder or restrict any functioning that Mercury & Mars need to do?
In the section I've used above Firmicus talks about an opposition of square from Saturn in a nocturnal chart involving dangers, hindrances and the risk of being cheated. I'll have a look for what the trine can produce and include it at Stage 3 if you remind me.

Originally Posted by Kalliope
Oh, my poor Moon, my poor Sect Light! She's in pretty bad shape! I was reading over your latest comments on Rulership according to Porphyry, and wondered if any of those rules push the argument for the Sun as Sect Light. It's confusing, but it seems like the Moon still wins out even though it's a lot weaker than the Sun. Are you still sticking with the Moon for my chart? How would one decide for sure -- by comparing predictions (or past events) using one or the other?
Yes I think there may well be and I'll look at that at the outset of Stage 2.
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