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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
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Minderwiz 
Domicile Lord of the Hour-Marker


This post will look at the Domicile Lord of the Hour Marker. or Ruler of the Ascendant, to give it a modern title. I shall be using some of Valens statements, here and one thing I’d like to assess, in conjunction with LeiifA, is how far they hold, if at all. as a descriptor of some personality traits and some of the focus in life.

Unlike Modern Astrology, Hellenistic Astrology does not lay down permanent, inherent qualities. Thus a ‘focus in life’ may be as others see the native, rather than he or she sees herself. That focus my not be permanent. It may be a one off, but something that is then identified with that person, no matter what they did before or after, or it may be a recurring but not permanent condition, or it may be something that is always there. That is Hellenistic Astrology allows the native to change. A Modern view might be that the native grows out of some characteristic of adopts some (up to then) new characteristic. However those statements would now be taken to imply growth or development, ideas which were not common in the ancient world. Those terms also would be probably taken to imply choice, the concept of being able to do anything we want. For the Hellenistic Astrologers that would not be the case. Some would allow an element of choice of free will but in a context of a world largely determined by fate.

So with those caveats, here goes.

The Hour Marker lies in Aquarius, ruled by Saturn. Valens says:

‘Those natives born under the sign of Aquarius can be a bit unruly and hateful of their kind. They are unchangeable and tend towards a one-track mind. They can, at times be delirious and deceitful, being crafty and tending to keep all things hidden. They can be misanthropic in nature, aesthetic and accusatory...Aquarians can be jealous and envious of those around them, which can lead to stingy and hair splitting behaviour. Whenever those natives tend to be generous, it is because of some “efflux” of the element of Water within them, which can mean that they are a bit unbridled and undisciplined in these cases. As a whole the constellation of the Water-Pourer is very wet, tending to bring down water.

The idea of Aquarius being unruly is something Moderns might identify with, given their association of Uranus with the sign but the unchangeable and one track mind would not follow. It’s worth remembering that Aquarius is a fixed sign, which does imply unchangeable and to the extent that the element of Air is associated with the mind (Mercury rules the Triplicity by Night) that would imply an unchangeable mind or a focus on one thing at a time.

Much of the other characteristics here are derived from Saturn, its ruler. The tendency to being generous when coupled with an efflux of Water, also has Saturn connotations. Saturn was associated with Water, sailing and ships. in the Hellenistic mind. Exactly what he means by efflux, I’m not sure. perhaps that will come out in the discussion.

Valens describes Saturn as:

Saturn makes those natives born under his influence have very little logic, causing them at times to be the type to count trifles, such as obsessing over tiny expenses. or to be focussed on the other minute details of life. These are the type of individuals to give others the evil eye, as they are envious of others and hold grudges. They are anxiety ridden, inclined to beat themselves down and solitary in nature. These natives tend towards a no-nonsense type of affectation. They can keep things hidden through the quality of being subtle and in this way can in some ways be deceitful. They can be harsh or crabby and in certain cases can be excessively rigorous, exacting and strict. In this way Saturn individuals can end up in high positions, nodding their assent and approval to those below them in rank.

Saturn types have the a quality of visual perception that focuses on the negative aspects of the world around them. They can also tend to be very dry. In general Saturn can bring about all kinds of expectations and large duties within big infrastructures and institutions, the duties of which can range from the holding of office, to having a government job of some kind. Saturn can also create the experience of being forced to do other people’s work.


Many of those statements may still be accepted as true by Astrologers. Saturn is, from a psychological perspective, associated with depression and anxiety. It’s also associated with fear and a lack of self confidence (unless there are other factors to take into account). Some of the characteristics, such as the reference to obsessing over trifles might now be seen as Virgoan in nature.

How much of these characteristics, Saturn is going to signify depends on the Sect of the Chart, which, in this case, is nocturnal. Saturn is the out of sect malefic and thus the most ‘dangerous’ planet in the chart. The one that will bring more ‘bad’ things than any other. In part that might be mitigated by Saturn being in its own domicile of Capricorn and in its own joy, so that too is something I’d like to explore.

Saturn is situated in the twefth Place, the Place of the Bad Spirit, though it also the place of Saturn’s Joy. Rhetorius links it to everything that happens before the native’s birth as this sign rose before the hour marker when mother and baby become separated. Antiochus associates it with force and necessity. Generally it is associated with enemies, loss or misfortune and slaves or servants. Valens links it to foreign countries (as for all declining places), enmities, slaves, injuries, dangers, trials, suffering, death and weakness.

Valens is quite bleak about the twelfth place:

'If the malefics happen to be in this place, they will cause great wounds and traumas, especially if they are in their proper face. If the Lot of Fortune is present in this Place and some [star] rules it, there will be no help, not even during transits. They have become enemies from the beginning, from the moment of birth. In the same, way benefics found in this Place will not bestow their benefits. Whenever these three stars fall in this sign (the rulers of the Ascendant, of the Lot, and of Daimon), they make men unfortunate and disgraced, those lacking their daily bread. Many will hold out their hands (for alms)'.

I take that last sentence to mean that all three planets need to be in the twelfth, for the native to become unfortunate and disgraced, and that is certainly not the case here.

However, the rest of his quote does not suggest anything good for the native. There are a number of ways of interpreting this but one could be that the native becomes his or her own worst enemy.

It could also signify problems that occur as the result of travel to foreign places, or at least far from home. such as diseases and injuries. These might occur as the result of the native’s own actions or the actions of his or her enemies but not necessarily so. The twelfth is associated with loss in general, again probably influenced by his or her own actions or the actions of enemies.

‘Enemies’ here does not have to be personal enemies, but could be injuries incurred whilst in military service. That latter possibility could be compounded by the Mars/Saturn opposition, linking the two houses associated with injury and disease and the two malefics. Mars in a night chart is less malefic and may even prove helpful in some situations. It too is situated in it’s own Joy of the sixth house.

As the out of sect malefic it’s more likely that Saturn will damage Mars, than the other way round. Mars rules the third place of Brothers (and certain religious matters, as the third is the House of the Goddess). Mars also rules the tenth Place of career and status, so I’m interested whether any effects have been felt in that area of life.

Saturn also overcomes, through a ‘tenth house’ relationship the Sun and Mercury in Taurus. Sun and Mercury have significance for children and for relationships and again those are areas that might be relevant to further discussion.

If this seems a bleak, forlorn picture, it’s worth pointing out that George W Bush and Barack Obama both have this placement for the rule or the hour marker, and in the case of Barack Obama, the hour marker is in Aquarius and Saturn is in Capricorn, though in a day chart in his case, He shows that a Saturn twelfth can result in achieving high public office but his enemies have limited his ability to realise what he wishes to achieve.

Saturn is not a sign of failure but it is a sign of difficulties and the need to overcome problems, even serious ones. So what I want to explore is how accurate this is, as a picture of life up to now.

Edited to Add:

I should also have mentioned that Saturn is on the verge of stationing Retrograde, which it did four days later. Saturn therefore undergoes a phasis or phase change and as such gets added importance in the analysis. This does not make it more or less malefic but simply increases its importance.

I should also add that I have Saturn in the first place, in a night chart, in its Detriment, so I can see some but not all of Saturn's problems in my own life. But I want to be careful not to over-exaggerate Valens' views, as it's perfectly possible to live life quite happily with Saturn LOL
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