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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
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Minderwiz 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeiifA View Post
Thank you again for the input. If you think these are confusing you should see the thread about this on skyscript.
Not sure which thread you mean but the one I found was:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewto...df8c4aa2318d17

I have a lot of time and respect for Deb Houlding, she helped me quite a bit in my early days studying Traditional Astrology. However, I'm not sure that I agree with her here, though her point is quite elegant.

She mentions Dorotheus, is I thought I'd start with what Dorotheus said on the matter. Writing about Quartile (Square) aspects, he said:

If Saturn aspects Jupiter from quartile it will diminish him in his property...it is worse than this if the place of these two is exchanged and Saturn is above Jupiter while Jupiter is in the left quartile but if Jupiter is overpowering Saturn then it is less for evil

That is if Jupiter receives the left square aspect of Saturn it comes off worst but if Saturn receives the left square aspect of Jupiter, the situation is mitigated to an extent.

Deb gives an example where Mars is the querent and Jupiter signifies the questited (note she is talking about horary here) and says that when Mars is applying to Jupiter by dexter aspect, Jupiter's influence over Mars is strong (my italics) which fits perfectly with the Dorothean and indeed Hellenistic and early medieval interpretation.

She then goes on to say that Mars gets a strong return out of the connection but if Mars makes a sinister aspect Mars is already in the dominating position so Jupiter is less able to convey strength to Mars.

As it's a horary question, the querent wants as much as possible out of the quesited, and whilst something is better than nothing, even more is preferable. So it's better for the querent if his/her significator applies by a dexter aspect because the questited's significator is more able to provide the goods.

Now that might be so in horary but it's not necessarily the case in natal, or indeed in other branches and to me it seems a bit of sophistry. I'm not convinced by her argument that the situation is analagous to the waxing Moon (which is always makes a dexter aspect to the Sun) because the thing about the waxing Moon is that it's growing in light, whereas there's no such situation with, say Mars and Jupiter, neither grows or diminishes in light during their synodic cycle, as a direct result of that cycle (though they do gain and lose light through combustion with the Sun).

If Deb's argument is what is taught in the QHP, then I can see why Dunn and others claim that the dexter aspect is stronger (in a horary context), though early practitioners of horary, like Sahl, made no distinction between natal and horary work.

It's also worth pointing out that horary came along after the Hellenistic period and so it's not really relevant to this thread, however I'm glad you raised the issue, so don't worry about continuing the discussion.
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