Spirit Guide Group: Dreams, Volume Three

Oh yes, there is an interesting layering of meaning here. So after reading about Judaism, you "happen" to be travelling home in the bus behind a Muslim couple. Islam is of course the younger child of Judaism, and it may have been quite impossible for you to run into a Judaic couple in Singapore - I suspect there are not many Jewish people there. So the closest match to your Judaic readings was the Muslim couple.

Then you dream about this Muslim couple. This adds another dimension to the Muslim fellow saying, "if you’d follow me, get off the bus at the next stop". Not that your dream director is suggesting that you convert to Judaism or Islam, but that there is something important in what you are reading that will be personally helpful to you.

Well, actually it’s [me] who said it to the guy.

I do have the interest to be in each and every religion to understand the true essence of their teachings. However there are very strict rules pertaining to converts for Judaism.

Let me recount the thoughts I had after reading…

Not to be offensive but initially my thoughts were that Jews had incestuous relationships… (E.g. Abraham & Sarah)

Then came into my head news of Iran – Israel tension.

Also, what determines a Jew? As I’m wondering whether the 4 wives of Jacob (Israel) are Jews before giving birth to the thirteen kids. (If they aren’t, how can the kids be Jews if Judaism is based on matrilineal?)

Anyway, my mind was filled with more doubts than faith.

So is the dream giving the message – not to doubt Judaism?

I have written about a dream that I had earlier in the thread, and now I have had one which is very, very similar ...
They have both come at a time, when I have been in similar places, in terms of my spirituality and religious beleifs, so it's been interesting to see the connection.
Last night I had another dream, that I was heavily pregnant, but that I was derelict - poor, with no where to live ... wearing the same worn out, but feminine clothes that I was wearing in the last dream. In both of the dreams - there has been no sign of a father - like immaculate conception or something, I have been entirely alone - except for in the last one there was the nun, and in the this one I was walking a dog. In this dream ... I kept walking around, I did not have a home to go to. I remember finding figs in my dream ... which I think has some meanings to do with ... sensuality? I think that in this dream - there was the brief appearance of a doctoy.
Anyway ... I had asked my guides, for a message through my dreams, and I think that this was it ... very interesting to see the connection between the two dreams, being so far apart, but in similar situations in my spiritual life

NeXoRiouS said:

Well, actually it’s [me] who said it to the guy.

I do have the interest to be in each and every religion to understand the true essence of their teachings. However there are very strict rules pertaining to converts for Judaism.

Let me recount the thoughts I had after reading…

Not to be offensive but initially my thoughts were that Jews had incestuous relationships… (E.g. Abraham & Sarah)

Then came into my head news of Iran – Israel tension.

Also, what determines a Jew? As I’m wondering whether the 4 wives of Jacob (Israel) are Jews before giving birth to the thirteen kids. (If they aren’t, how can the kids be Jews if Judaism is based on matrilineal?)

Anyway, my mind was filled with more doubts than faith.

So is the dream giving the message – not to doubt Judaism?

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Hi NeXoRiouS

I don't think there's anything at all wrong with doubt, that is what prompts us to explore and learn things for ourselves. But your dream may suggest that there is something of value for you in the readings, and to be tolerant and open towards them.

As in most other religions and cultures, incest is taboo in Judaism. In my own interpretation, I see many of the accounts in the Torah, particularly the most ancient ones, as archetypal stories. At the archetypal level, incest becomes a meaningless concept - this is at the level of the symbolic and it is quite far from the literal. In many religions, particulary in the accounts of deities, there are stories of incestuous relationships. This does not indicate that the religion is promoting incest, but that at the symbolic level there is an inherent relationship between two archetypes which can be expressed as both familial and erotic. For example, Brother Sun and Sister Moon are often also lovers who become husband and wife.

Cheers - David

Thanks David

You’ve broadened my understanding. Probably, the dream was to get me to post in here and have someone teach me something. Just guessing but not saying it’s impossible.

I agree that in stories, anything can be said as long as the teachings are brought across. Well, be it symbolic or ‘realistic’, in my eyes incest is after all a beautiful thing.

Thanks for sharing. I’ll review the dream in my meditation. Meanwhile, I don’t know why my guide is laughing so hard and I’m being influenced to laugh as well.


Truth are lies, Lies are truth.

Immaculate Conception

autumn star said:

I have written about a dream that I had earlier in the thread, and now I have had one which is very, very similar ...
They have both come at a time, when I have been in similar places, in terms of my spirituality and religious beleifs, so it's been interesting to see the connection.
Last night I had another dream, that I was heavily pregnant, but that I was derelict - poor, with no where to live ... wearing the same worn out, but feminine clothes that I was wearing in the last dream. In both of the dreams - there has been no sign of a father - like immaculate conception or something, I have been entirely alone - except for in the last one there was the nun, and in the this one I was walking a dog. In this dream ... I kept walking around, I did not have a home to go to. I remember finding figs in my dream ... which I think has some meanings to do with ... sensuality? I think that in this dream - there was the brief appearance of a doctoy.
Anyway ... I had asked my guides, for a message through my dreams, and I think that this was it ... very interesting to see the connection between the two dreams, being so far apart, but in similar situations in my spiritual life

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Hi Autumn Star

It is neat that you have had a return to this dream theme! The immaculate conception and following pregnancy is a common symbol of bearing a spiritual child - that the progress of spiritual work is going on within you. Yes, the figs are not only sensual but erotic - it is no accident that fig leaves were used to cover up the "naughty bits" in classical sculpture and painting. Not having a home to go to could indicate transitional change in the psyche, since one's psyche is normally one's dream home. There was a point in my journey where, having destroyed the masculine castle of militant oppression which represented my previous psyche, I wondered where and what my next home would be. If you haven't done so already, I think that some Tarot work on this dream would be helpful.

Rich Blessings - David

Transcending the Archetypes

I had previously only posted this dream itself in private to friends, but the events arising from it seem to have a wider application.

In my first dream from the morning of December 11, I remember putting various business gadgets such as a stapler, calculator, laptop computer, hole punch, etc. into the toilet and flushing it down. Everything went down just fine except for the laptop.

A woman came along at that point and with some humour said that she didn't think it would go. I also saw the funny side, but felt I had made the point. I somewhat disappointedly took the laptop out and put it in the garbage. The dream ended.

When I woke the words "transcending the archetypes" stayed with me.

It is clear that the dream director is saying something quite pointedly about the business chores I am involved in both at work and at home. But more fundamentally it is a reflection on my teacher's suggestion at the Friday creativity session that I consider journaling my dreams in writing again. She feels my writing at the computer is becoming almost too fluent, making it harder to remain open to the dream itself - instead a little too readily caught up in the creative flow. I always do my most important writing on paper first, but usually type up my dreams without a paper draft to save on time. It is clear that, not for the first time, the dream director is in concurrence with my teacher.

"Transcending the archetypes" seems to be the lesson of the past few weeks, starting with the sarcastic observation the dream ego made of the "models" or archetypes "parading" through the mall in the "Movie Classic" dream. In a general sense, putting all this business down the toilet may refer to clearing the mind of non-essentials, distractions and busy work.

In the more spiritual sense, it may be that I will be looking at the archetypes in a different way, not limiting them so much to a particular context of expression. In Anodea Judith's book Eastern Body, Western Mind: Psychology and the Chakra System as a Path to the Self, she places the Archetypal identity at the Brow chakra. The Universal identity exists at the Crown consciousness, and so may be said that unitive consciousness transcends the Archetypes at their visionary level. In a recent post to the Competition thread, this quote from Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross said it all (the emphasis is mine):

"The second quality of the sweet night is its darkness. All the faculties of the spirit are bathed in obscurity. The soul cannot see a thing. Nothing apart from God can sway her. She walks directly to him, free of any forms arising from any natural perception which might otherwise have interfered with her merging into the formless eternal being of God."

These words are an exegesis of his verse:

That sweet night: a secret.
Nobody saw me;
I did not see a thing.
No other light, no other guide
Than the one burning in my heart.

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It is interesting to note where St. John's guide lived also!

After listening to this "transcend the archetypes" mantra for a moment or two I returned to dream space. I was rewarded with a dream which I could use almost directly in my Inner Beloved novel, and when I woke this was followed up with some general plot outlining. Unfortunately I cannot share this dream because I must keep the creative fire contained.

So the further aspect that I learned was that I must always draft my novel in written form first - which in fact in the little bit of work I have done towards the novel I confess that I have not been doing so. The dream director can be extremely persuasive! Do this and I will give you that!

So I bought a new red journal for dream logging, and a somewhat larger format lined notebook with a stiff cover for drafting my novel. I put both to immediate use. I also took my teacher's other advice - "Buy yourself a decent pen!" - it is after all my instrument.

BTW, it was the government laptop that I disposed of! I don't intend to replicate that action in this other reality - the fewer dealings I have with the RCMP - the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the "Mounties" in their red jackets - the better. Destruction of Federal property is not treated lightly!

A Holy and Enchanted Place...

The point made about spending less time with the computer was driven home in the two succeeding nights. The next night's dreaming was very disrupted with frequent waking moments, full of ideas for the novel - but in the following day I didn't find time to write them down until I went to bed again.

Then in the following night I slept solidly, but woke early, again full of creative ideas for the book. This time when I went to the computer in the morning I actually felt nauseous! The body was speaking to me in the same way it had done to cause the diet changes following the union with the Inner Beloved. But again I didn't find time to write my inspirations down until I went to bed last night.

Since that single day in which the guide who is in my heart, Eirian/Natalie, was in co-consciousness things have never been the same. It has now got to a critical point, a new paradigm. This morning as I was chatting in bed to my wife, I called Eirian/Natalie my demon lover, because her influence has become so powerful and rooted - and the treasure is like that once in a lifetime dream of Coleridge's Kubla Khan - which has this quote about the demon lover:

A savage place ! as holy and enchanted
As e'er beneath a waning moon was haunted
By woman wailing for her demon-lover !

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Something has to give because the creative tension is becoming so great - I have to be free to record it all. So that something is in the image of the laptop about to be flushed - my time at the ATF. I need to become much less of a regular at the ATF, and certainly no longer take part in the Competition posts.

It appears that the bulk of my dreaming from now on will be in the world of the novel itself, and this must be brought forth freely onto paper, not typed up into the computer. This will not prevent explicit therapeutic dreams from coming up, which they still are - but I suspect that much of my continuing psychic development will actually take place through the novel. I have never at any time in my life known this depth of creative involvement, it is like being possessed. But I do know that it is exactly how it must be for a sustained work of art to be created.

My card for the week was Temperance, and my prophetic words were, "May I be true to her call!" Yes, it will take all my strength and discipline - but it is a work of great joy!

Again from Coleridge, this time from The Rime of the Ancient Mariner:

Forthwith this frame of mine was wrenched
With a woeful agony,
Which forced me to begin my tale ;
And then it left me free.

And ever and anon through out his future life an agony constraineth him to travel from land to land ;
Since then, at an uncertain hour,
That agony returns :
And till my ghastly tale is told,
This heart within me burns.

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As much as I was drawn here to these forums by this same burning heart, now there is as little choice but to commit myself fully to my new work. I will still participate in these wonderful forums as much as I can, but I dare not betray the heart's new call. In a year and a half of incredible change, the ATF has been a central instrument of transformation. I have made several very special friends here and I have no intention of withdrawing from these relationships. But my overall level of activity in the forums, including the Spirit Guide threads, will have to become much less consistent.

Sat Sri Akaal - Truth is Eternal
With much love - David

Dear David,

Well... I'm sorry that you won't be here that much, but as a fellow writer, I know what happens when the creative bug bites! Once, I was unable to sleep for days because of it... Doing a Tarot Reading on it... Wands, Wands, Wands
I also greatly prefer writing with a pen or pencil =)

I dreamt last night that I was seeing messages in mandala's and I could "read" them. As if they were actually just signs that said something... I also dreamt vaguely again about a box.

I'm kind of wondering what is going to happen next on my journey. All the "extra" powers I have in my dreams usually manifest themselves exactly in that way, in my waking life...

Maybe I should start drawing Mandala's... As soon as I find out exactly how...

Kahlie

David, this new creative urge sounds wonderful and although we will miss your excellent input, I'm so happy for you that you have such a wonderful path to follow.

Thankyou for all the help you have given us, the time you have spent replying to our posts and the great wealth of wisdom you have shared with us. I look forward to hearing about your book when you want to share it with us.

Take care and don't be too much of a stranger

Millie