Hellenistic Astrology


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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Thanks. As I said, if you have any questions as you work your way through, then please post.

I'm now intrigued about your chart lol. So I'll definitely use you as one of the subjects.
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LeiifA  LeiifA is offline
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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Thanks. As I said, if you have any questions as you work your way through, then please post.

I'm now intrigued about your chart lol. So I'll definitely use you as one of the subjects.
I certainly will post questions if the answer isn't found within a few pages. I had one the other day but it was answered on the next page.

I understand everyone is busy with the holidays also, so extra time is expected.

Thank You,
Leiif
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LeiifA  LeiifA is offline
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Expiring degrees


Hi Minderwiz,

What does one do when a planet is in the last few degrees of a sign? Is the next sign looked at? In the "Whole Sign House" system this would also be the last signs of a place. What about in a quadrant system?

When using a quadrant system the same question can be related to the last degrees of a house, next house?

Happy New Year to All
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Originally Posted by LeiifA View Post
Hi Minderwiz,

What does one do when a planet is in the last few degrees of a sign? Is the next sign looked at? In the "Whole Sign House" system this would also be the last signs of a place. What about in a quadrant system?

When using a quadrant system the same question can be related to the last degrees of a house, next house?

Happy New Year to All
As far as I can tell, the answer is that there is not any attention paid at all to the succeeding sign, unless the ruler of the sign in question is positioned there. That applies to the Whole Sign Houses, so there is no equivalent of the Medieval rule of allowing planets placed within five degrees from a house cusp to be treated as though they were in the next house.

The Hellenistic Astrologers did not use quadrant houses for topical issues, though in the latter part of the period the Whole Sign House position of the MC was taken into account. The use of quadrant houses for topical issues seems to have arisen some time in the late ninth or early tenth centuries, after the Hellenistic period was finished.
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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
As far as I can tell, the answer is that there is not any attention paid at all to the succeeding sign, unless the ruler of the sign in question is positioned there. That applies to the Whole Sign Houses, so there is no equivalent of the Medieval rule of allowing planets placed within five degrees from a house cusp to be treated as though they were in the next house.

The Hellenistic Astrologers did not use quadrant houses for topical issues, though in the latter part of the period the Whole Sign House position of the MC was taken into account. The use of quadrant houses for topical issues seems to have arisen some time in the late ninth or early tenth centuries, after the Hellenistic period was finished.
Thank you for the reply.

In your personal Astrology work have you seen any reason to include or exclude the 5 degree rule you mention?

In digging around the forum my wife came upon a short thread regarding aspects and latitude. It seems that latitude may need to be considered for conjunctions and oppositions but not so much for other aspects. Am I reading that right?
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General Question


Minderwiz,

This thread is fast approaching a full 2 years. In that time you have read a lot of Hellenistic writings and looked at a fair number of charts with this method. Do you find the Hellenistic approach to be more useful than the modern? Are you using a combination of the 2? What do you find most useful?

Have you ever considered doing a Hellenistic approach using the quadrant houses? My chart has challenges either way but my wife's seems to change so much that I am not sure she would be the same person in Hellenistic astrology. How do you reconcile a chart that changes so much?

Thanks for your time. Let me know when to send you my info.
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Originally Posted by LeiifA View Post
Minderwiz,

This thread is fast approaching a full 2 years. In that time you have read a lot of Hellenistic writings and looked at a fair number of charts with this method. Do you find the Hellenistic approach to be more useful than the modern? Are you using a combination of the 2? What do you find most useful?
I am using it more and more and finding it very useful. I've even started using Whole Sign Houses with Horary, though that's a return to the original house system and not an innovation. I still find it a challenge to get the original house/place meanings (or at least the earliest house/place meanings for the twelve house/place approach.) That introduces some error, more due to my understanding rather than the method itself. Doing Chris Brennan's course has helped enormously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeiifA
Have you ever considered doing a Hellenistic approach using the quadrant houses? My chart has challenges either way but my wife's seems to change so much that I am not sure she would be the same person in Hellenistic astrology. How do you reconcile a chart that changes so much?

Thanks for your time. Let me know when to send you my info.
Well they only used Whole Signs for topical places, that is the areas of life. Quadrant houses were used as a test of planetary strength, and not for a topical reading. I'm impressed with Whole Sign Houses, it provides a clearer approach to dealing with the topics. I'm not saying its 100% correct but it is a more organised approach.

Hellenistic Astrology does not have a basis in psychology, though it can give some psychological insights, so when you say 'I'm not sure she would be the same person' in a way you're comparing chalk with cheese. Hellenistic Astrology is much more event related and treats the outside world as a 'real' place rather than an inner state of mind. You would be looking at her from a different perspective and you have to drop the idea of imposing modern interpretations on planets and their signification. You get an alternative picture and one that might prove useful in practice.

I'm not far from the end of my horary readings, indeed I have one almost ready to post, leaving two more to finish off the current list. So please go ahead and supply me with your natal details.
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But please allow for my learning process between then and now. At that time I was just beginning my study of Hellenistic Astrology and trying to find my way.
I don't think you need me to allow anything but I do stand by what I wrote above. I do think the relations/relationship area will ease significantly even if it takes some more decisive actions to be taken and I'm good in cutting off all kinds of limbs and people. LOL

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That was before I found Chris Brennan's note which I mentioned in this particular bout. My opinion still leans towards the Schmidt approach of using the sign ruler. But as I've not tested the Brennan view, I really do need to point it out. As I think I said, once you start to allow for planets that are configured to the sign, then It's going to come near to most of them active, most of the time, as you would see from your Pisces period, as Mars, Moon, Venus and Sun are all configured natally, and for your Aries period Jupiter, Mars, Moon, Mercury and Saturn are configured natally. And that is not counting transits.
I become very wary each time I read an astrologer who finds it necessary to include seven planets to prove a point. Even five is a stretch, IMHO. I definitely prefer to stick to the sign ruler and/or a planet in the sign which seems significant in the natal chart. If indeed the method works, it should work with two-thre planets at most, otherwise it turns into a "bread and circuses" type of activity and it's not my cup of tea. So, I'll follow up and see if and when it works. Currently there is a very strong building tension whcih amy very well explode in a Jupiterian action: court. However, with these Time Lords and with the solar returns for this and next year, I'm ready to battle. And to win, of course, there is simply no other option. I should also add that once Saturn left Scorpio and released the reigns, I've started feeling the usual boiling sensation and made it clear two times already that things will be taken to officials if change doesn't happen and soon. And I mean it.


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OK so you married in a Jupiter period and the marriage brought you your son.
That's not what i wrote. I didn't mention children at all. To me an event is beneficial when it brings a change far deeper than giving birth (not that it's not important but it shouldn't be necessary for a change to occur). In this case it brought out a new "me", a completely different person, taught me a broader view, wisdom and helped me learn how to deal with parts of my natal chart, namely 7th house aspects, changed my phylosophy in a drastic way and most probably for the rest of my life, not to mention granted me optimism I wouldn't suspect I possessed. In short, it was Jupiterian, though not necessarily easy. On the other hand, looking back, probably due to Jupiter's influence, it wasn't a suffer at all, either. LOL This may be due to the egotism of all fixed signs, not to Jupiter.

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It should not have been a disaster with Jupiter in overall 'command' but Mars is in your seventh Place and that has caused trouble, as you indicate in your post, your ex is still causing problems. Overall, as you said, it hasn't been for the worse, because Jupiter is stronger than Mars by placement. But that doesn't mean that there hasn't been negative issue that have been quite strong.
No, not a disaster. The problems are still ongoing because I am a Mercury/Venus in mutual reception person. Virgo and Libra insists on a milder approach and pull the brakes until it all explodes and it's near. Once it's dealt with legally, no more problems will be experienced as this is not a person who would dare to break a law or cross a boundary established by law (but explained to him personally and not by me LOL).

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By sign, Mars and your Sun are trine. So whilst Mars is 'malefic' this is not a very negative relationship Yes by degree they are only two degrees off a square,
No, they are not. Mars and Sun are in pure trine by degree. Did you look at the Moon while you were writing this?
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Originally Posted by Ronia View Post
I become very wary each time I read an astrologer who finds it necessary to include seven planets to prove a point. Even five is a stretch, IMHO. I definitely prefer to stick to the sign ruler and/or a planet in the sign which seems significant in the natal chart. If indeed the method works, it should work with two-thre planets at most, otherwise it turns into a "bread and circuses" type of activity and it's not my cup of tea. So, I'll follow up and see if and when it works.
If you were to push me, I'd agree with you.

However, looking at it in detail might well rule out some of those planets because they're not involved in transits. But I agree that having most active inreases the odds of several of them being involbed in some way or other.


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Originally Posted by Ronia

That's not what i wrote. I didn't mention children at all.
But you did say
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Originally Posted by Ronia

I even married during a Saggittarius period, ruled by Jupiter and Mars was activated. LOL The marriage may not have proven my most successful step b ut it did produce something very beuatiful and after all, I got what I wanted.
From which I inferred that 'something very beuatiful(sic)' referred to your son. Of course I might have been wrong to make that inference, in which case I accept your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia


No, they are not. Mars and Sun are in pure trine by degree. Did you look at the Moon while you were writing this?
I think I was actually thinking (wrongly) of the Saturn/Sun relationship for that second sentence. But the point I made in the first was and is valid. Mars trines your Sun, so it's not as bad as it might be. Mars does square your fourth house (which also might be what I was thinking about but six or seven weeks on my incipient Alzheimer's leads to an inability to remember what was in my mind at the time )
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Ronia  Ronia is offline
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Oh, you missed the "beautiful new Me" that emerged from the whole marriage situation, Minderwiz. While there is no doubt children are a great thing, I do consider ourselves and our ability to further grow and develop beautiful as well, and often more important.

Yes, we have discussed the trine Mars/Sun before, I was just wondering which planet you had in mind when writing about the square. I'm sorry you are experiencing difficulties with your health and wish you a great new year ahead.

We'll see how it will play out. One of the problems I have is that, having seen both my solar returns for 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 + my progressions and solar arc for the period, I will never truly know if it was the Time Lords that played out. More likely a combination of a few very strong solar return points + significant progression events + rare solar arc aspect. Which brings me back to the "3 times confirmed" rule I've been looking for in most cases when dealing with charts.
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