Major Arcana titles: le Mat

jmd

Having discussed each of the Major Arcana cards, in some cases not paying much attention to the various titles they may have had, I thought it would be interesting to begin to focus just on these.

This card has, by the way, been discussed in the thread called Le Mat.

Waking up at around 3:00 am with the Fov card and its title as 'Mat' on my mind, it suddenly occured to me that, using Mark Filipas's research which indicate a possible Hebrew abecedarium for at least the Marseille sequence, that 'Mat' may simply be a Hebrew word, forgotten with time.

Checking my Hebrew dictionary, two words came up, each which spells MaT (but read with those letters from right to left, Hebrew fashion). It is worth noting that Filipas also suggests that this card is positioned last, hence with 'T' (Tav).

MaT ('ThaM') has the meaning of:
  • innocent, simple, naïve, honest;

    and, with a different 'a' vowel,
  • finish, to be exhausted.
Precisely the card!

At the end (according to this view), hence exhausting or finishing the series, depicting a naïve, hence honest and innocent simpleton.
__________

The card's other titles I'll leave for later.
 

Rusty Neon

No one knows for sure.

Aleister Crowley, tarot author Sylvie Simon and tarot author Carole Sédillot note that the word "matto" in Italian means "fou" (French for "fool").

Sylvie Simon also notes that the word "Mat" is quite close to an Arabic word which means "death". However, she doesn't indicate the exact Arabic word.

Crowley notes that Mat is close to the word Maut, the ancient Egyptians' vulture goddess. Ancient Egyptian origins for the tarot? :)

I wonder if there is any Roma (Gypsy) word of interest. :)
 

Ross G Caldwell

There is an interesting parallel between the French and Italian use of the word Mat and Matto respectively -

The Mat is an old French name for the card Fou, but the French don't say someone is "mat" (=mad?). I suppose there must have been a time or place where the word was used in French like that, since it is in Italian (see next).

Matto in Italian is both the name for the card, *and* is still used to describe someone who's crazy, nuts, or plain silly.

But interestingly, the identical word is used in both French and Italian to say "check-mate" -

French "échec et mat"
Italian "scacco matto"

and of course the word "mate", "mat" and "matto" comes from the Persian term for death, "mat", which gave chess the phrase "shah-mat" (check-mate), "the king is dead".

Whether the terms mat (fou) and mat (mate in chess), or matto (fol) and matto (mate in chess) are related linguistically, and merely became assimilated through identical sound, I don't know. But it is strange that in both languages the same word is used in both games, but for quite a different purpose.

Ross
 

catboxer

I always thought both "mat" and "fou" simply meant "nuts." Similarity to the Persian "shah mat" must be coincidental.

Somewhere between Calais and Dover the crazy person became a "fool," and the differences in both denotation and connotation have led to differences in interpretation as well. A fool is not insane, even though his capacities are limited due to his being silly, or naive, or merely stupid. The effeminate young man we see stepping over a cliff in the BOTA deck, with his head in the clouds and his feet firmly planted in thin air, is a far cry from the scary madmen of the earliest decks.

The Mattos on the Visconti decks are the most frightening. They're either retarded or schizoid or both, as well as physically ill, and they look dangerous. But there was quite a bit of variety in the presentation of this idea, even very early on, and the "Fou" from the so-called Gringonneur pack is a whole different animal. This guy is obviously the lenten King of Fools, and as the spirit of Fat Tuesday he beautifully conveys the feeling of that manic celebration, when all of society goes more or less nuts. I find this guy sinister and threatening, conveying a potential for violence just below the surface, like some modern-day clowns. But maybe that's just me.

The usual Marseille image provides a kind of transition from the ancient crazy men to the modern harmless and benign fools. This is one of the most cryptic, subtle, and difficult images in all of the history of art. He's called "Le Fou," but is he really crazy? He looks more like a vagabond or a tramp. Dogs chase him, children laugh at him, and village women tell him, "Keep moving, or I'll take my broom and hurry you along." I can't help relating this image to Bosch's Prodigal Son pictures, which are discussed somewhere on this thread. Now the prodigal son isn't really crazy; he's just, I guess you could say, confused.

That's a good place to leave it.
 

Ross G Caldwell

catboxer said:
I always thought both "mat" and "fou" simply meant "nuts." Similarity to the Persian "shah mat" must be coincidental.

That's the question I was posing. In chess, it is not coincidental at all, you can look it up - the Persian "shah mat" is the origin of the English "check mate", the French "échec et mat" and the Italian "scacco matto."

The check/échec/scacco, on the other hand - related to "checkered" (the chess board), or is it also related to "shah"?

But the main question is, are "matto" and "mat" meaning "mad", from a different root? Persian is an Indo-European language - perhaps the original meaning of "mad" is simply "gone" or "absent", another word for "dead", but equally applicable to madness - the mind is gone.

OR, are the two identical spellings of matto/mat merely orthographic coincidences, the one meaning coming from one direction, the other from Persian.? I'm not trying to state a definite answer at the moment, just posing the question. I am sure I could find the answer, once the libraries open again (closed for most of August here in France). But I am sure there are others equally capable of looking in an etymological source...


Somewhere between Calais and Dover the crazy person became a "fool," and the differences in both denotation and connotation have led to differences in interpretation as well. A fool is not insane, even though his capacities are limited due to his being silly, or naive, or merely stupid. The effeminate young man we see stepping over a cliff in the BOTA deck, with his head in the clouds and his feet firmly planted in thin air, is a far cry from the scary madmen of the earliest decks.

I will grant you that last point. But I am not sure about the first. Both sides of the channel had their court Fools, and as far as I can tell, folly, craziness, simplicity, ignorance, and sheer stupidity are all equally applicable to the Fool throughout time.

Or am I misunderstanding you?


The Mattos on the Visconti decks

Which one is there besides the Pierpont-Morgan-Bergamo, with the feathers in his hair?

are the most frightening. They're either retarded or schizoid or both, as well as physically ill, and they look dangerous. But there was quite a bit of variety in the presentation of this idea, even very early on, and the "Fou" from the so-called Gringonneur pack is a whole different animal. This guy is obviously the lenten King of Fools, and as the spirit of Fat Tuesday he beautifully conveys the feeling of that manic celebration, when all of society goes more or less nuts. I find this guy sinister and threatening, conveying a potential for violence just below the surface, like some modern-day clowns. But maybe that's just me.

I'll second that. Like the Charles VI/Gringonneur, which is usually attributed to a Ferrarese milieu, the Este decks show a gigantic figure with kids trying to pull his shorts down. I wonder if this might indicate that he is a representation of a carnival figure, with a giant costume on, such as still appear in carnival processions and parades.

The usual Marseille image provides a kind of transition from the ancient crazy men to the modern harmless and benign fools. This is one of the most cryptic, subtle, and difficult images in all of the history of art. He's called "Le Fou," but is he really crazy? He looks more like a vagabond or a tramp. Dogs chase him, children laugh at him, and village women tell him, "Keep moving, or I'll take my broom and hurry you along." I can't help relating this image to Bosch's Prodigal Son pictures, which are discussed somewhere on this thread. Now the prodigal son isn't really crazy; he's just, I guess you could say, confused.

That's a good place to leave it.

Maybe I see what you meant at the beginning now... that the Fool on the Smith-Waite deck weakens or softens the TdM image - i.e. across the channel. Ok.

I agree with your impressions of the TdM Fou completely. A vagabond, or tramp, but not a Gipsy (in community), but alone.

Overall, there is also the connection with the Illuminated capitals of Psalm 51, "The Fool says in his heart, 'There is no God'". He is usually carrying a big stick and looks disheveled.

Ross
 

Ross G Caldwell

Ross G Caldwell said:
The check/échec/scacco, on the other hand - related to "checkered" (the chess board), or is it also related to "shah"?

Dredged up an answer from the internet for that question -

"Aside from the usual etymological eddies, the development of the name flowed as follows. The Persian shah "king" came through the Arabic and the tangles of time to Europe as, among other variations, the Old French (e)sches, plural of (e)schek "check" derived from "shah." From there it was but a minor simplification to the Saxon and Modern English word "chess."

The culmination of this bloodless substitute for bloodletting is the murder of the enemy king, although the modern game ends euphemistically with the checkmate. This term, too, can be traced through a millennium to Persia. Shah mat "checkmate" means 'the king (shah) is dead,' where "mat" is related to the Latin stem mort- "death" found in "mortuary." "

http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/wordman007.html

Ross
 

Ross G Caldwell

Ross G Caldwell said:

But the main question is, are "matto" and "mat" meaning "mad", from a different root? Persian is an Indo-European language - perhaps the original meaning of "mad" is simply "gone" or "absent", another word for "dead", but equally applicable to madness - the mind is gone.

Apparently not, although "mad" seems to be related to "matto", according to the American Heritage Dictionary, 4th ed. (2000)

(Part of definition of "casemate") -

"matto, mad, crazy (from Latin mattus, drunk, past participle of madre, to be drunk)."

http://www.bartleby.com/61/91/C0139100.html

I can imagine the 15th century Fool, as well as the TdM vagabonds, being drunk.

Ross
 

Diana

I checked an Occitanian-French dictionary.

http://www.mnet.fr/cgi-bin/sabaud2.cgi

"MAT" is an Occitanian word.

There are many words for "fou" (mad) in Occitanian, and two of them are:

1) FOL which means fou, folle (crazy) (from the Latin "follis").

2) MAT which means fou, insensé, extravagent (crazy, insane, extravagent). (from the Italian "matto".)

Kris Hadar has always claimed that the Tarot is Occitanian.....

This reminds me that I promised I would translate one of his e-mails that he sent to me, which he said I could share with you all. I will do it shortly.
 

firemaiden

one old french word, two etymologies

I am not in possession of a French-Occitan dictionary, but one of my most prized possessions is a little paperback dictionary of old french: Références Larousse : dictionnaire de l'ancien français (jusqu'au milieu du XIVeme siecle, Pr A.-J. Greimas, 1980. p. 398:

  • I

    mat n. m. (1160), Eneas: du pers. mat, mort....so the first documented appearance of the persian root variety of the word "mat" in French Lit is in Roman d'Eneas 1160.
    1. Action de mater, de rendre mat.
    2. Victoire.

    mater (1080. Rol). ...from the Song of Roland
    1. Faire mat. -
    2. Dompter, vaincre: Onkes ne fui matez de guerre. (Dolop)
    ...to tame, to vainquish: "Never was he vanquished in war" from Dolopathos, book of poetry 1210.

    matir v. (1169, Wace).
    1. Mater, abattre: por sa char mestir et fouler (Vie des Pères).
    2. Flétrir: li frois la verdeur matist (Chans.)
    ..."to wilt - the cold wilted the vegetation" from "Chansons" XIII century.

    matison n. f. (XIIIe s., Fregus). Acte de faire échec et mat.


    II

    mat adj. (XIe s.; lat. mattum) ...the latin root variety of the word has its first documented appearance in the eleventh century

    1. Abattu, vaincu : Qui gisoit a la tiere, a mort navrés et mas (Rom. d'Alex.) ...he lay on the ground, mortally wounded and 'mat'

    2. Abattu, affligé. ...beaten down, afflicted

    3. Humilié : Maz et confus de ce que sa traison fu ensi descoverte (Chron. Saint-Denis). "...humiliated and confused that his treachery was discovered this way" fr. Les Grandes Chroniques de Saint Denis XIIIe s.

    4. Triste. Faire mate chiere, avoir une mine triste. ...to look sad

    matement adv. (XIIe s., Chev. deux esp.) D'un air abattu, avec accablement. ...in a beaten down, overwhelmed manner, (from Le Chevalier aux deux espées, - the Knight with Two Swords, twelfth century Chanson de geste)
 

firemaiden

So, as you can see, the first definition attributes the persian root, and the second definition, the latin. So, yes, separate etymologies, but as Ross pointed out, most likely related further back down the road. :)

It is most interesting to me that "Old French" -- which is not a language, per se, but a collection of northern dialects -- does not list the acception of "crazy" here at all -- only beaten, vanquished, half-dead, which I suppose a crazy person may sometimes appear.

No, but that the Occitanian definition does include the idea of being "crazy", is very exciting, I think. I wish I had a dictionary of old langue d'oc.

But important for me, is also that the word "mat" no longer exists in modern french except in the context of "dull" - as in a dull surface, or as in "check mate" whereas in the 12th century, the word was obviously used in the language rather interchangeably with vanquished, beaten, and had many forms and many words formed from it.