Thoth - List of Editions.

Edgar

Hi! I own the AGM's Gerd Ziegler book and deck set(In french) and indeed there is the O.T.O. card and a Unicursal Hexagram card in it but no extra Magus, and I bought it new. I was also intrigued about the extra magus and saw the US Games deck (Also new) in a local shop and had a look at it, there was the extra Magus (Like advertised on the box) and no O.T.O. card or a Unicursal Hexagram card. I didn't bought it then(Wasn't on my priority list) but on my next visit I shall not hesitate! ;)

For what it's worth, me still being a novice, I think that the AGM's Gerd Ziegler book and deck set is really a best buy! The book is really helpful and the size of the cards in it is perfect for most hand size! :)
 

Voron

1987 US Games AG Muller Thoth

Well I found the box that formerly housed my long lost beloved dark/saturated Thoth that I'd mentioned earlier. The best printing of the Thoth I've ever seen.

Date of deck: Cards--1986, LWB--1987
Publisher US Games and AG Muller
Box design:

It is a White box with XXI The Universe (in color with the newer borders) on the back.

The top of the box says, in sans serif font (dashes added for spacing):

"ALEISTER CROWLEY THOTH TAROT
----Deck Printed in Switzerland
---U.S. GAMES SYSTEMS, INC.
-----Stamford, CT 06902 USA
and AGMULLER & CIE, Switzerland
CR80-----------ISBN 0-88079-308-2"

On the Front, it has in red calligaphic lettering (dashes added for spacing):

"ALEISTER CROWLEY
------THOTH
----TAROT DECK"

Then in black, curved in an arc, in a fancy old english style font:

"Ordo Templi Orientis"

over a red OTO lamen.

then, in black sans-serif (all centered):
"IN SMALL CARD SIZE

BOOKLET OF INSTRUCTIONS
Includes essay by Lady Frieda Harris
and foreward by Stuart Kaplan

COMPLETE 80-CARD CROWLEY TAROT DECK
Includes Three Renditions of
The Magus/Magician Cards"

The sides each say seven lines worth about Crowley and Harris and the extra cards.

The bottom has the ISBN #, two barcodes: "9 780880 793087" and "90000>" , and the letters "EAN"

Card Size: Small (exactly the same as the 1996 US Games small version)

Cards are excepionally dark/rich/saturated. Cardstock is a little heavier than the 1996 version. Backs have Rosy Cross with thin white border and say "(c)1986 AGMuller" Fronts have white & grey border, with astrological signs and hebrew letters. Suit printed in grey beneath title.

Extra cards: Magician and Magus.

LWB copyright 1978, 1983, and 1987, by Stuart R. Kaplan and Donald Weiser.
Written by James Wasserman, plus essay by Lady Freida Harris, with commentary and footnotes by Stuart R. Kaplan. Lists Hymenaeus Alpha as OTO Caliph. Sans Serif font. Content appears the same as 1996 US Games.

"Popular Tarot Decks" listed on back of LWB: Angel, Aquarian, Cogliostro, Cat People, Classic, Crowley's THoth, Dali's Universal, Egipcios Kier, Etteilla Egyptian, Gareth Knight, Hanson-Roberts, Hermetic, Karma, Marseilles, Medieval Scapini, Morgan-Greer, Motherpiece Round, Native American, Oswald Wirth, Renaissance, Rider-Waite, Swiss 1JJ, Tavaglione, Transition, Ukiyoe, Witches, Zolar's Astrological.

ISBN: 0-88079-308-2


If anybody has this exact deck, or knows where to get it, I'd love to hear from you.
 

gregory

I think I have the exact DECK (regular size yes ?) The backs match ! and so do the three maguses ! but with a different box and LWB. Now that you mention it it is FAR more coloured than any of my others. I got it from Somerville - but as Muller (who technically published mine) I suspect a Muller now would get you the more washed out ones ! Bought 1989; dated 1986 (like yours) - no ISBN though.
 

Voron

gregory said:
I think I have the exact DECK (regular size yes ?) The backs match ! and so do the three maguses ! but with a different box and LWB. Now that you mention it it is FAR more coloured than any of my others. I got it from Somerville - but as Muller (who technically published mine) I suspect a Muller now would get you the more washed out ones ! Bought 1989; dated 1986 (like yours) - no ISBN though.

Yes, regualar size.

I *just now* found this deck online!! I called the store and had them describe the box to me! Score!! After 10 years!
Do you know how hard it is to find a twenty-year-old deck with the same ISBN number as a much more recent deck?

This is the only deck I consider to be an accurate representation of the Thoth.

Funny: Venus and Neptune today are currently conjunct Crowley's Saturn, (and opposite his Uranus).

The year that deck was published, He had a lot of interesting and positive astrological transits.
Jupiter crossed his midheaven and went through his 10th house, stationing near his Neptune, Pluto crossed over his Jupiter and closed in on his Mercury, and in his 6th house, Neptune sextiled his Jupiter and squared his nodes, while simultaneously in his 5th, Uranus sextiled his Venus and Saturn Sextiled his Sun and Saturn and trined his Uranus. He also had a Lunar nodal return and Saturn trined his Midheaven.
 

gregory

I do HOPE it is the right one. I will post a scan of one of mine soon, and you can see the vivid colours.
 

Lillie

Voron said:
The year that deck was published, He had a lot of interesting and positive astrological transits.

But he was dead.....
How positive can it be???
 

gregory

I think this is a grammatical misunderstanding. If not - I DO agree :D
 

Voron

Lillie said:
But he was dead.....
How positive can it be???

The energy associated with the birth of Alexander Edward Crowley had an impact on the world which continues to this day.

By comparing the current (or that of twenty years ago) astrological atmosphere to Crowley's chart, what we are seeing is the nature of the interaction of the dynamic energies with those prevalent at his birth. It is purely symbolic, much like casting a chart for the US, or for a business. But it doesn't make it less valid. In a very real sense, the Thoth Tarot was the most influential portion of Crowley's Great Work -- it has probably impacted many more people than has Thelema, it is the concentration of all his magickal learning. So, the strong Saturn influence is not surprising in the charts I looked at.

Example:
In the chart of George Washington that I found, comparing it with the date of the dedication of the Washington Memorial in DC yeilds Neptune (the planet associated with mega-fame, glamour and an emotional connection with all of humanity, and ruler of his Sun) crossing the Ascendant -- a biggie. Others: Saturn, Mercury, and Venus trine Pluto (legacy), and Jupiter opposite the Sun, and the nodes (karma) conjunct his Saturn-Jupiter opposition.
 

Voron

gregory said:
I do HOPE it is the right one. I will post a scan of one of mine soon, and you can see the vivid colours.


I still have the Box, the LWB and the extra Magus/Magician cards to verify. They've been the constant remider all these years of what the other THoth decks I've seen *could have* been.

They are remarkably close in color to the giant poster I saw at NOTOCON V of images of the newly restored Thoth originals.

Hopefully the Urania Verlag 'laser' Thoth will give us the truest Thoth yet...*if* they and the OTO ever get their act together.

Did you know the restoration was around $50K?
 

Lillie

Well, whatever.

But once I'm dead I doubt I'll give a monkeys what my horoscope says.