Courts Body Language

Aeric

Reading Yoav Ben-Dov's Open Reading book made me wonder if there's a deliberate use of body language in the Waite court cards.

Of the Knights, Swords moves fastest, Wands next fastest, Cups slowest, Pent immobile. Surely something to do with the fluidity of their elements? Why do Wand and Sword face left?

King of Wands is the only one seated in profile instead of centered. King of Cups is the only one holding a scepter in addition to his pip.

Sword Queen is the only one gesturing, as if giving a command. Cup and Pent contemplate their pips, Wands looks off into the distance.

Sword Page is the only one moving over the landscape. Cup Page faces left and doesn't reverently hold his pip in both hands but casually in one hand, as if about to raise a toast.
 

StarScream

yes definatley, wands queen is the only one with her legs spread ;)
 

Teheuti

One of my students was a veternarian who specialized in horses. We had fun in class when she identified each Knight's horse as a particular breed whose characteristics seemed to match the suit. I have no idea if she was correct, but it was lots of fun to do. I believe Waite says something about the horses expressing the energies of the Knights - that is, the body language of the horses.
 

La Force

One of my students was a veternarian who specialized in horses. We had fun in class when she identified each Knight's horse as a particular breed whose characteristics seemed to match the suit. I have no idea if she was correct, but it was lots of fun to do. I believe Waite says something about the horses expressing the energies of the Knights - that is, the body language of the horses.

Yes, Waite does in the PKT

Knight of Wands is not on a warlike errand. The motion of the horse is a key to the charater of its rider.
Knight of Cups graceful, not warlike, referring to those graces of the imagination
Knight of Swords is riding full course, he is really prototypical hero of romantic chivalry, galahad, he is clean of heart
Knight of Pentacles he rides a slow, enduring, heavy horse to which his own aspect corresponds

Knight of Pentacles = Percheron/Friesen/Canadian (spelling) = heavy work horse
Knight of Wands = Quarter Horse/mustang = light work horse
Knight of Swords = Arabian grey = race horse of the arabian desert
Knight of Cups = Andillusion/lipizzaner (spelling) = dressage the dancing ballet horse

Canadian horses are Canada National horse

here is what they look like, they are on the endangered species list. Many of these horses were in the US during Waite's time. There were your versatile horse, war horse, carriage horse, plow horse, riding horse, milk/delivery horse, etc. They range in size from 15Hh to 17.2 Hh. There are black, sometimes you can get chestnut, but rarely. Some very rare are white.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=canad...GJogTtl4GQBw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAA&biw=1280&bih=800

I am a Member of the Canadian Horse breed association
In my profile I am riding a Canadian horse at the Canadian Horse show
 

Teheuti

Knight of Pentacles = Percheron/Friesen/Canadian (spelling) = heavy work horse
Knight of Wands = Quarter Horse/mustang = light work horse
Knight of Swords = Arabian grey = race horse of the arabian desert
Knight of Cups = Andillusion/lipizzaner (spelling) = dressage the dancing ballet horse
Thank you. These seem similar to the ones my student suggested, and i appreciate the additional remarks.
 

La Force

Thank you. These seem similar to the ones my student suggested, and i appreciate the additional remarks.

Your welcome

Mary you would be very interested and intrigued of the history of the Canadian horse. The Canadian horses temperment fits the bill, for the Knight of Pentacles, and I feel Waite must have known a couple of these horses in his time, well it wouldnt surprise me.

I would be most interested to know if he was, if there is a connection of Waite or Pamela Smith and the Canadian Horse.

The Canadian Horse originated from France, King Louis XIV, 1647. Personal Stock, he shipped them over, to colonize Canada / North America

Here's a link to get you started

http://www.henrycarrfarm.org/Main/04_horsehist.html

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_horse
 

Amber Lamps

Pictorial Key, Celtic Method:

Waite writes:

Turn up the FIFTH CARD; place it on the side of the Significator from which he is looking, and say: This is behind him. It gives the influence that is just passed, or is now passing away.

N.B.--If the Significator is a Trump or any small card that cannot be said to face either way, the Diviner must decide before beginning the operation which side he will take it as facing.

----------

My own N.B.--Kaplan changed this in the LWB.
 

caridwen

Reading Yoav Ben-Dov's Open Reading book made me wonder if there's a deliberate use of body language in the Waite court cards.

Of the Knights, Swords moves fastest, Wands next fastest, Cups slowest, Pent immobile. Surely something to do with the fluidity of their elements? Why do Wand and Sword face left?

King of Wands is the only one seated in profile instead of centered. King of Cups is the only one holding a scepter in addition to his pip.

Sword Queen is the only one gesturing, as if giving a command. Cup and Pent contemplate their pips, Wands looks off into the distance.

Sword Page is the only one moving over the landscape. Cup Page faces left and doesn't reverently hold his pip in both hands but casually in one hand, as if about to raise a toast.

Yes there is:)

There are courts that face you.
Courts that are pictured side on.

And the same applies to the minors as well.

I believe that those who look left are those associated with intuition. The Left is also associated with the left hand path. The left is the feminine and the right is masculine so where characters are holding an object look at which hand they hold it in.

If we take the Page of Cups as an example then Water is associated with the feminine. http://www.rootwerx.com/tarotdecks/...f-cups/images/rider-waite_Page_Cups_large.jpg

He looks as though he's listening to the fish. I often associate the RWS Cups with Christianity because of the fish symbol. However in this instance we could imagine that the animal is a link to his intuition. The fish used to be used by early Christians as a secret symbol so perhaps the fish is telling him a secret. Indeed it is a symbol of Freemasonary as well in the guise of the Vesica Piscis.

The Page holds a chalice in his right hand which is the masculine hand and the card of reason, intellect and action. He also leans in that direction so we can perhaps expect some action with the Page and indeed he is traditionally the Messenger. The Cups are associated with emotions so an Emotional Message. As a non verbal cue,the hand on hip posture means the person is about to take action or take steps. It is also a gesture used in courting where the male tries to increase his body size to perhaps frighten off other males and look more masculine however he does not meet your eyes so is perceived as non aggressive.
 

ravenest

I dont understand your point- first you say:

. The left is the feminine and the right is masculine so where characters are holding an object look at which hand they hold it in.

If we take the Page of Cups as an example then Water is associated with the feminine.

And then ;

The Page holds a chalice in his right hand which is the masculine hand and the card of reason, intellect and action.

It would seem, that by your first statement the cup would be in his left 'female' hand? Is the right male aspect because he is a Page and that 'over rules' what you said about the association with the feminine ? This also confuses me ; " his right hand which is the masculine hand and the card of reason, intellect and action" - although it could be a typo ? In either case it seems the Page of Cups, which you point out is water and associated with the feminine is the card of reason, intellect and action ? ? ?

Or are you saying this is the mode that feminine reason , intellect and action manifest through ? (I would have thought that would be in a feminine sword court ??? )


Indeed it is a symbol of Freemasonary as well in the guise of the Vesica Piscis.

Indeed ? .. I feel that is quiet a stretch ... Freemasons (as well as numerous others in various locations and times all over the world) may use the vesica ... due to its symbolic geometric properties ... not because it represents a fish ... it's as if you somehow relate Freemasonry use of the vesica, to the fish, to the Page of Cups and so to the RW Tarot?
 

caridwen

It would seem, that by your first statement the cup would be in his left 'female' hand? Is the right male aspect because he is a Page and that 'over rules' what you said about the association with the feminine ? This also confuses me ; " his right hand which is the masculine hand and the card of reason, intellect and action" - although it could be a typo ? In either case it seems the Page of Cups, which you point out is water and associated with the feminine is the card of reason, intellect and action ? ? ?

As far as I am aware (please correct me if I am wrong) the Right is associated with the Masculine and the Left is associated with the Feminine.

We seem to have a mixture of both in the card with the card being a 'feminine' card with a male figure. The Right is masculine and associated with movement and the Page is indeed poised to move as indicated by his body language. He holds a chalice (a feminine symbol) in his Right hand which would indicate masculinity. This would also indicate some kind of action. Pages in the RWS is a Messenger which is a traditional meaning from Cartomancy - a messenger is active because they have to move to deliver a message. This would suggest that a message of some kind will be delivered. This is opposed to an intuitive message for example which would be internal and feminine in nature.

The card is Water and Water is a Feminine element however the card also suggests Action which is a masculine attribute.

Or are you saying this is the mode that feminine reason , intellect and action manifest through ? (I would have thought that would be in a feminine sword court ??? )

No I am not saying this is a mode of 'feminne reason' I'm saying that it is an emotional message.

Indeed ? .. I feel that is quiet a stretch ... Freemasons (as well as numerous others in various locations and times all over the world) may use the vesica ... due to its symbolic geometric properties ... not because it represents a fish ... it's as if you somehow relate Freemasonry use of the vesica, to the fish, to the Page of Cups and so to the RW Tarot?

Waite was a Freemason and there are many references to Freemasonary in the deck. He was also a Christian and there are many references to Christianity in the deck including the Chalice and the Fish. I'm sure you're aware of Sacred Geometry and its relation to Freemasonary.