Astrological Reading Methods for Pips

Hooked on TdM

Melanchollic said:
We have a very strong connection here. A double conjunction. The K of Batons passes to as the 4 of Batons to a house next to the querent's, and the querent passes to a House next to the quesited as the 7 of Coins.

M

Okay, now how do I determine the difference between it being a conjunction from a passing? (thinking of all those coins) How to I determine which coin to what house is the conjunction? I get the Batons but the coins really confuse me.

The Roy de Batons really irritates me. I just don't like the guy. I've only ever got him once where he was pleasant! I get the stab in the back from the huge wand of his. Look at the tip, it's very sharp. It also somewhat shielded from sight. He looks as if he's all casual, but really he's not. He's prepared.

I think though that all are meanings make sense, especially put all together!

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Joermit

Hooked on TdM said:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii23/BBwolfie/Tarot/Tarot1.jpg[/url]


The question: Is A. doomed to repeat her past?


Hello...

I lurk much, post seldom... but have been following this thread closely... I read the wheel and use derivative houses as well... I was simply wondering...

Mel, what are your thoughts on looking at the 11th house in this spread (the 5th of the 7th)... I always look to the 11th sorta as 'love returned' and the romantic nature of a partner... the VIIII Coupe there interests me...

just curious... and wondering if it might add any further insights to Hooked's friend's situation...

Joey

P.S.
The second house (8th of the 7th) interests me as well here...
 

frelkins

yeah yeah Mel, all you fickle guys stick up for each other. Mr. King's a hard worker, but he don't have eyes for her.

Still maybe the 4 batons in the 12th house suggests she makes it hard for herself here? The only other "baton" in the layout is the one in the Devil's hand, and to my mind this reinforces Mr. King's 'tude. Playboy! Why do you like him Mel? Does he remind you of someone you know? ;)

But as for all those other coins: http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houses.htm#house5 says house 5 can be dating. So I see she takes the 4 coins from house five, adds them to the Ace in house 4 and gets where she is now. She comes from a comfortable home and has had some good (4s a good number in coins) dating experiences. But the 8 coins in house 8 of sex maybe means she hasn't had the best sexual experiences? Since 8 isn't such a good number in coins for you Mel? How would you interp that 8?

I wonder if this nice background is what attracted her to "bad boiz"? Like a 50s teen rebel movie or something, the nice girl hops on the Harley. . .:)
Nice isn't boring. . .doesn't have to be.

And what do those 2 4s have to say to each other Mel?
 

Melanchollic

A Quick Recap

Step 1 - Find the Significators

The querent and the quesited (the subject of the divination) are each assigned to one of the twelve houses. The querent is always shown by the first house, but the quesited, depending on its nature, may be found in any of the other houses. So, whatever card is placed in the first house will be the significator of the querent, and whatever card that is found in the house of the quesited will be the significator of the quesited. The nature of the cards of the two significators, and how much of a connection or relationship between them are the main factors in interpretation for the astrological method. In some rare cases there may be more than one quesited to consider, for example love triangles.


The Twelve Astrological Houses and Their Classical Meanings


First House: the querent, longevity, health, happiness, moving vehicles, the head.

Second House: goods, material wealth, gain, business transactions, material things the querent desires, moveable objects, lawyer acting in your behalf in a lawsuit, and stolen property, the throat and whatever goes in the throat, hence food.

Third House: brothers and sisters, cousin's of the same generation, the querent's neighbors and environment, short journeys, letters, advice, news and rumors, arms, shoulders and hands.

Fourth House: father, inheritances from parents, land, agriculture, buildings, construction, treasures, anything underground, ancient places and things, old age, hidden things, the chest and lungs.

Fifth House: sex, pregnancy, children, entertainments and feasts, bodies of water, heart, liver, stomach, sides and back.

Sixth House: servants, pets, employees, small animals, illness, injuries and lower belly, bowels and intestines.

Seventh House: the querent's spouse or lover, love relationships, marriage, partnerships, quarrels, known rivals and enemies, any unidentified person, reproductive system and pelvis.

Eighth House: death, dangers, inheritances (other than from parents), your partner's money, lawyers representing the other side in a lawsuit, organs of excretion.

Ninth House: religion, philosophy, learning and education, the arts, wisdom, long journeys, learned professionals, hips and buttocks.

Tenth House: employment, position in society, honors and awards, people in positions of authority, courts and judges, mothers, the weather, thighs and knees.

Eleventh House: friends, sources of help, good fortune, the querent's hopes and wishes, calves and ankles.

Twelfth House: self undoing, hidden enemies, suffering, difficulties, any secret matter, imprisonment, large animals, the querent's fears, the feet




Step 2 - Find the Connection

Occupation

Occupation is when the same kind of card occupies both the house of the querent, and the house of the quesited, either the same suit, the same number, or the same court position - King, Knight, etc.. It is the strongest indicator of relationship.


Conjunction

Conjunction is when one of the significators, either by suit or by number, passes to a house next to the house of the other significator. When the querent's significator passes to a conjunction with that of the quesited, the querent will achieve what he or she wants, but will have to work for it (go to it). When the significator of the quesited passes into a conjunction with that of the querent, on the other hand, no effort by the querent is needed (it comes to them). When both the querent and quesited have conjunction, it is the the second most powerful indicator of relationship. The third most powerful is a single conjunction.


Translation

Translation shows a modest connection between the significators. Translation is when the same figure, a figure other than either of the significators, appears in houses next to those of the querent and the quesited.

Mutation

Mutation is where the significators of the querent and the quesited both pass to neighboring houses elsewhere in the chart either by suit, or by number, or by court position. This is only considered an indicator of relationship if these passed significators connect by aspect.


Aspects

In astrology, aspects are never considered by house, since houses are fixed and never change. The aspects are taken between the planets, which move freely across the chart. Similarly with tarot, only when both significators have passed out of the fixed houses (mutation), can we consider any possible aspects between them.

There are four traditional aspects which are used in astrology and geomancy, besides conjunction (which we've already examined): sextile, square, trine, and opposition.

The sextile aspect in astrology occurs when two planets are at a 60-degree angle to each other. With tarot, two cards are sextile when there is one house between them. This aspect is moderately favorable.

The square aspect in astrology takes place when two planets are at a 90-degree angle to each other. With tarot, two cards are square when there are two houses between them. This aspect is unfavorable.

The trine aspect in astrology occurs when two planets are at a 120-degree angle to each other. With tarot, two cards are trine when there are three houses between them. This aspect is favorable.

Opposition in astrology takes place when two planets are at 180-degree angle to each other, on opposite sides of the sky. With tarot, two cards are in opposition when there are five houses between them - when, in other words, they are in opposite houses in the chart. This aspect is moderately unfavorable.

Because of the the unique nature of the 22 trump cards, I treat them differently than the regular suit cards.

  • The trumps do not pass.
  • The trumps accept aspects.

So, unlike the pips/courts, a trump need not pass to make aspect with other cards. This makes them somewhat similar to planets in their own rulerships.


M
 

Melanchollic

Joermit said:
Hello...


Mel, what are your thoughts on looking at the 11th house in this spread (the 5th of the 7th)... I always look to the 11th sorta as 'love returned' and the romantic nature of a partner... the VIIII Coupe there interests me...

just curious... and wondering if it might add any further insights to Hooked's friend's situation...

Joey

P.S.
The second house (8th of the 7th) interests me as well here...


Hi Joey,

Welcome to the party.

Using these methods, those cards wouldn't play much of a role since some sort of 'connection' is required to show that what ever potential is being shown by the card will actually manifest. So the card's numbers, suits, pictorial allegories are showing us their power and inclination to act, but it is the connections that show us if the occasion to act out that power and those inclinations will ever come to pass. The querent may be perfect for the job, and the quesited may be looking for someone just like the querent to hire, but if querent never hears about the job, it won't happen... The two never 'connected'. Of course, there are many other methods for reading an astrological spread. This is but one. :)



Thoughts on HoT's Reading


hotreading.jpg



The querent passes to four other houses (via coins). By passing to a house next to the quesited, we get conjuction. This alone should answer the question. What ever the quesited is, the querent is 'going to it', good or bad. Of the remaining three passed cards, only two are worth noting, because the have aspect with the quesited, the Ace and the Valet. These are all positive and mainly help us determine the relationship between the querent and quesited will be positive. The specific nature of these passed Coins and the houses they are in may show some minor influence on the situation, but since we already have a very clear answer, why bother :?: If the querent asks for some details concerning the situation, then, we may be obliged to dig a little deeper.


:love: M
 

frelkins

Mel said:
The querent passes to four other houses (via coins). By passing to a house next to the quesited, we get conjuction. This alone should answer the question. What ever the quesited is, the querent is 'going to it', good or bad.

In short, HoT, YES she is doomed to repeat seeing Mr. King types, she is "going to it" as Mel says. Of course, Mel argues that Mr. King isn't the dawg we think he is. I think the querent needs to reconsider who she's looking for in these love matters and reset her male types or go into therapy, myself.

However I have a question about one of the trines, Mel. Your diagram shows a trine between the 4 Baton & the Ace Coins, but if I count the house isn't that a quincux or whatever? Aren't they 5 apart, counting the houses in order? Or for these aspects, do you literally count the card positions and ignore the strict house order?

Also on your remark that "only if the querent wants more detail" do we check out these aspects, but Mel - we nosy readers and our girl querents care ONLY ABOUT DETAILS in LUUUUV, so please, tell us more about the Valet Coins. This in her 10th house of the father, yes? Is this the "father figure" archetype that is influencing her male choices in later life?
 

Hooked on TdM

I just woke up, so I'm still scrubbing sleep out of my eyes here..

Okay so I missed the whole point about the suit or number passes next to the other house for conjunction! I get it now. Thanks for the recap M, I missed that the first time around.

Yes, details would be beneficial. She really wants to end this cycle and is stumped on what she is doing to cause it. I will have a gander at the spread once I wake up and return with my musings.

HoT or Hooked (which one? now I'm just confusing myself LOL)
 

Melanchollic

frelkins said:
In short, HoT, YES she is doomed to repeat seeing Mr. King types, she is "going to it" as Mel says. Of course, Mel argues that Mr. King isn't the dawg we think he is. I think the querent needs to reconsider who she's looking for in these love matters and reset her male types or go into therapy


Yep! :D I don't see Batons as being being negative, not in that way anyway. Courts too, I see as being, well, noble. So, Hooked. It's your call sweetie! A lot hinges on how you interpret the two significators. Though do keep in mind, his card also has conjunction with her, he is going to her, mutual adoration. Plus a trine and a sextile. ALL positive aspects.

As for myself, I still go with my original assessment.


Melanchollic said:
The 5 of Coins - Adds a unit to the stability of the four... but with a positive spin (coins). This could show the querent is now comfortable (coins) with coming out of the rut (4) and is coming to a new level (5). She's outgrown the confines of 'her box', and can move on to healthier relationships.

The King of Batons - Some of the ways you guys are describing this King, "controlling, domineering, backstabbing. defensive" are clearly more suitable for a King of Swords. "stab"... "defend"....etc.. I see Batons as the tool of "labor", so the Baton gang would be "laborious". This word has two general meanings: 1. requiring much work or exertion. 2. industrious, hard working. This could mean either the querent's future relationships will require some work to make them successful, or the kind of man she'll end up with will be industrious, hard working, perhaps to the point of being a little boring, compared, to the 'bad boy' types that use to attract her, but treated her badly.

Most essentially, we have to establish that these two things are connected at all, or we may just be looking at unresovable possibilities.

We have a very strong connection here. A double conjunction. The K of Batons passes to as the 4 of Batons to a house next to the querent's, and the querent passes to a House next to the quesited as the 7 of Coins.


Mel's Call to Arm for all tomatoes:

I'd say the querent is ready to change (5 of Coins), but this will require some effort on her part (batons) since the safe, nice, 'steady job' type of fellows she'll be dating will seem boring to her compared to the unpredictable 'outlaw' types she's been seeing, and she'll have to resist that urge to "hop on the back of that Harley". ;)

:love: M
 

frelkins

We anxiously await HoT's reply with more info from querent. What is Mr. King really like? Loving banker, great husband material OR a self-centered swinger?

Inquiring minds want to know!

But Mel, if you view all courts as "noble," do you truly then believe there are no "bad people" in tarot, just good people with "bad aspects?"

Do advise, thanks.
 

Hooked on TdM

Sorry guys, I got sidetracked with a huge issue yesterday. I have to get this reading done! I promise I will post it later (I'm sure my son is tired of my layout taking over the coffee table by now! lol)

Hooked