thorhammer
You'd have to make me believe it.re-pete-a said:
Most times in matters of spirit etc., I've found, proof and belief are mutually exclusive.
\m/ Kat
What if !
Most times in matters of spirit etc., I've found, proof and belief are mutually exclusive.
\m/ Kat
re-pete-a
Beliefs again,based on? TH, this is what is meant . It's understood that at this moment the trains tracks are called lines of doubts, which are running through the collective beliefs picked up over the years (since birth). Where would the Walt Disney era be without the co-operating cinema goers,prior to that the purging times of rampant unorthodox systems by the organised ones, prior to that (which has been running a long time and still is in motion). so lets wipe out 5000 years. or go forward 5000. will the un-organised be extinct, because the promised one never was or never came. Belief systems do have use by dates,or best before , timing. Dragons , castles and knights, are just fading memories, the same as petrol, propellered air war machines , steam ships and steam trains.
Milfoil
I'm not sure what you are asking any more.
We have memory, as do other animals but it is possibly an arrogant (not yours specifically - just generally) assumption to believe that we must be remembered for ever. Animals and plants do not assume such importance. Their truer understanding of what we are, how we all are one and part of the whole without the ego of self importance means that they don't require such epitaph. Their and our energy returns to the whole, becoming one again but we can learn a profound lesson from them if we choose to listen.
Do they? Do spiders dream? Do they fear or are their responses a result of instinct? I may not know unless I become spider.
Ego, the ego mind, the separation of self from the all, from the divine and hence our ever present need to return to it.
This is the falicy of some beliefs, that we are separate. The human race is only different, in my understanding, because we have chosen to reason.
Far from being the top of the evolutionary ladder, we may well be at the bottom and the it is our animal and plant brothers and sisters who are WAY more advanced than us, they are our ancestors, our teachers and already know the completeness of the universe.
Belief, faith - is that all that is required? Thats a question best answered by the individual. Understanding that one can be unique yet at one with all things simultaneously and have direct experience of the divine in all things is what, for me, brings true belief rather than a fostered faith of others.
Is that what you are pondering?
re-pete-a said:
We have memory, as do other animals but it is possibly an arrogant (not yours specifically - just generally) assumption to believe that we must be remembered for ever. Animals and plants do not assume such importance. Their truer understanding of what we are, how we all are one and part of the whole without the ego of self importance means that they don't require such epitaph. Their and our energy returns to the whole, becoming one again but we can learn a profound lesson from them if we choose to listen.
re-pete-a said:
Do they? Do spiders dream? Do they fear or are their responses a result of instinct? I may not know unless I become spider.
re-pete-a said:
Ego, the ego mind, the separation of self from the all, from the divine and hence our ever present need to return to it.
This is the falicy of some beliefs, that we are separate. The human race is only different, in my understanding, because we have chosen to reason.
Far from being the top of the evolutionary ladder, we may well be at the bottom and the it is our animal and plant brothers and sisters who are WAY more advanced than us, they are our ancestors, our teachers and already know the completeness of the universe.
Belief, faith - is that all that is required? Thats a question best answered by the individual. Understanding that one can be unique yet at one with all things simultaneously and have direct experience of the divine in all things is what, for me, brings true belief rather than a fostered faith of others.
Is that what you are pondering?
re-pete-a
The primordial soup kitchen dishes out life to any . Part of that any is the human race, same pot. Because of understandings gleened from observing mammals , regardless of size, that they do have R.E.M.states,plus observations in this house of mister spider and mates (very hard to watch R.E.M.'s with them)They do plan and hunt. it's leading to a belief that all existance is one ,if that is so then a new depth has been reached and is, as is usual in the unknown, causing confusion . That brings up the doubts and, that the current old system is faulty and should be closly examined and questioned.
It wasn't that long ago that it was believed that no children or animals felt pain , especially dogs and horses.Now there's a doubt that even insects arent immune to dreams and thoughts,
That train is gathering speed crushing and crashing beliefs along the rails of doubts. Ego's, in order to partake of the P'soup must be developed as new ,just like the body, Perhaps the Buddists are right. Your confused as to the point here? The point is, is this collective belief in the superioty of this species built on sand and B' SIT.
It wasn't that long ago that it was believed that no children or animals felt pain , especially dogs and horses.Now there's a doubt that even insects arent immune to dreams and thoughts,
That train is gathering speed crushing and crashing beliefs along the rails of doubts. Ego's, in order to partake of the P'soup must be developed as new ,just like the body, Perhaps the Buddists are right. Your confused as to the point here? The point is, is this collective belief in the superioty of this species built on sand and B' SIT.
Milfoil
Most definately sandy ego and human sh1t (lets leave the poor old bull out of it . . .
)Sophie
Well, Marx had that revelation, and convinced a number of people. But not everyone and the pendulum swung, eventually. I think humanity is too diverse to be swayed by one single revelation - and history has shown that every revelation brings in its wake a counter-revelationre-pete-a said:
. That's a huge relief, in a way. Nobody can ever be a Messiah for long . And as you and Milfoil imply - "revelation" is often a mask for ego.The crowned one
re-pete-a said:
With the exception of the world "false" your statement looks correct. We are "man" and our thoughts we make. For that mater I find my reality more real then yours by default, but not more right. Just by having the "experience" it becomes reality for that individual, a memory with emotions attached to it...can you see this?
re-pete-a
LOUD AND CLEAR, but lets quote a very learned friend, "We experience what we believe, unless of course we believe we wont , which makes the first bit true, We experience what we believe. EG: afraid of conflict? watch it happen. etc.
re-pete-a
WELL, WELL, WELL,take a look at what just popped into the hands , talk about experiencing what is believed, LUCRETIUS, "The nature of things" HE LIVED ABOUT 100 TO 50 YEARS bc.He talks of atoms, back then. Oh boy, are things just going in circles? he talks of freeing humanity from the delusions of religion and its associated control by observing what is in front of you now,without the overlay of fear and delusional beliefs.Could be busy for a while. What's happened to that mental train,derailed or job done??
re-pete-a
MMMnn, just sunk in , Milfoil. The Separation, the Fears, and the Reason. All three make an interesting senario. With fear being the top of the list, Doubts are built on fears.Reason on judgements ,being good or bad ,pleasure or pain, loss or gain,fear. Separation, distrust,loss, again fear based.
So,back to the beginning of this thread,The fear of extinction, Hence the frantic gathering of beliefs and proofs to allay fears that it's all NOT for nothing.
So , Gods and fantasies,and all sorts of marvels invented so extinction is buried. Someone comes up with an idea that they know the unknown and have the authority and the blessing of the keeper of that unknown, and if you don't do as is demanded (not by THEM, but IT,they're only the special messenger )Then they have the authority to change the unknown into a forever fear. Perhaps thats the reasoning behind the fool card,face your fear of extinction , then no other power in heaven (?) or earth would sway one from accepting the allness of existance. ......Headache,from collapsing beliefs. That trains gone now,just the smoke and dust left, SILENCE..... Thanks for the space and support to grow.
So,back to the beginning of this thread,The fear of extinction, Hence the frantic gathering of beliefs and proofs to allay fears that it's all NOT for nothing.
So , Gods and fantasies,and all sorts of marvels invented so extinction is buried. Someone comes up with an idea that they know the unknown and have the authority and the blessing of the keeper of that unknown, and if you don't do as is demanded (not by THEM, but IT,they're only the special messenger )Then they have the authority to change the unknown into a forever fear. Perhaps thats the reasoning behind the fool card,face your fear of extinction , then no other power in heaven (?) or earth would sway one from accepting the allness of existance. ......Headache,from collapsing beliefs. That trains gone now,just the smoke and dust left, SILENCE..... Thanks for the space and support to grow.
