Demons? (Split from Demons can come? in Talking Tarot)

These posts were split from a thread in Talking Tarot. The original is here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=105300&page=1&pp=10

Macavity said:

Aside: I think too, it's a TAD unkind to single out e.g. "Ceremonial Magicians" (Thoth-ites, Waite-ites... or anyone) as the "bad guys" of Tarot.

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Not bad guys automatically - just those with the ability to call up demons, should they want to, while most of us are hard put making sure the postman comes on time, with or without tarot cards. Their powers of evocation are neutral - they have learnt to call up any kind of spirit entity, including angels and demons. I've always wondered - about those who do call up demons - what do they do with them once they appear? Demons, being demonic, aren't likely to be very obedient, are they? I think I'd rather risk my skills (such as they are, and evocation isn't one of them) on calling angels and other kinds of low-maintenance spirit. At least there's no fear they would throw a strop and turn against me!

asphodel said:

what, DG, you believe in unicorns, don't you? please don't tell me they're not real, I'll be devastated...

actually, I think we owe it to the girl to come clean and tell the truth... YES, we all have demon portholes in our homes, every one of us on this forum. I keep mine in the living room. And you can have one too, it's ok as long as you take it with you when you move out, or the landlord will charge you extra to have it removed after you leave!!


(ahh hahahahhah, laughing uncontrollably ....

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ASPHODEL! THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO TELL YOU WHEN YOU JOINED... DENY THE PORTAL!

Good G-d! Who lets these noobs in?

Fudugazi said:

Not bad guys automatically - just those with the ability to call up demons, should they want to, while most of us are hard put making sure the postman comes on time, with or without tarot cards. Their powers of evocation are neutral - they have learnt to call up any kind of spirit entity, including angels and demons. I've always wondered - about those who do call up demons - what do they do with them once they appear? Demons, being demonic, aren't likely to be very obedient, are they? I think I'd rather risk my skills (such as they are, and evocation isn't one of them) on calling angels and other kinds of low-maintenance spirit. At least there's no fear they would throw a strop and turn against me!

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Read Chapter 11 of DuQuette's book on the Thoth Tarot - The bit where he EXPLAINS the role of Demons in the Ceremonial Magician's quest for "Knowledge and Conversation with one's personal Holy Guardian Angel"?

As I say, I TOO, have no great wish to get involved with invoking (or evoking!) anything. LOL. But I do like to gather every snippit of knowledge re. Tarot... Some of that might even come from e.g. reading the Bible - The KJV or the version original Old Testament in Hebrew - OK, I struggle, with the latter, but with the aid of a dictionary... Anyway, a few "Old Testament" ANGELS did pretty horrible things to people, before the New Age "sanitised" 'em?

Hey, I'm an "Agnostic" (I think!) but to limit one's KNOWLEDGE of the Tarot, because someone ELSE says that some bits are "Christian" or are "Black Magick" ... Well, I'd call that a shame. Frankly, "Tarot Fundamentalists" scare me every bit as much as Christians. And probably account for the reason (Fun!) folk have deserted Tarot Forums, because everything is so polarised and... "irreverant" conversation is quasi-forbidden.

I think: Tom Lehrer is STILL relevant today - And particularly within Tarot.

I shall now go back to sleep for several years.

Macavity said:

I shall now go back to sleep for several years.

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<<< pokes Macavity >>>

Roll over, you're snoring LOL

Umbrae said:

Hello? . . . Now perhaps demons aren't really demons in the demonic way of thinking of demons, but really - do you really think there is or are no other forces in the universe? Just man? Only the tactile physical world is real?

Hello? You read tarot cards – hello?

Myself – I know there are other ‘things’ out there. And they ain’t all good. You’ve not experienced them, and that’s fine.

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Very true. In fact most are pretty indifferent rather than being 'good' or 'evil' in the common perception. They have their own agendas . . .

There are entities out there that thrive on fear, hate, greed etc - its exactly THAT sort of thing that draws them closer in my experience. The woman who made this statement about tarot opening a door to demons is exhibiting exactly the sort of fear that WILL attract something unpleasant if she's not careful. But on saying that, we all have our fears and we all manage to get through the days without demonic possession . . . As Umbrae says, its way more about intent than mere chance.

The original meaning of the world Demon (daemon or daimon) comes from the Greek word δαίμων meaning bad spirit but Christian ideology makes them into fallen angels, Budhists have Wrathful Dakinis (sky walkers) and Buryat shaman call them wrathful Tenger. Either way, folk have believed in them under whatever guise or name since the dawn of human history.

Do they come to harrass us because we read tarot? Lets ask the 16'000 members of this site for a start, see if we are all plagued by nasty spirits? Then we can expand the search to the rest of the globe.

The woman who made the 'tarot invites demons' statement is simply ignorant of the full facts which is exactly what mainstream religion has striven to do all these years and clearly its worked!

rwcarter said:

>> I << could have SO much fun with her!!!!! But then, I know that it's going to be rather warm for me in the afterlife....

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OH brother me too....So much fun!!!

You should have said "what??? Oh no I am fine, it's not like I eat apples or anything.... you don't eat apples do you?????"

Umbrae said:

Hello? . . . Now perhaps demons aren't really demons in the demonic way of thinking of demons, but really - do you really think there is or are no other forces in the universe? Just man? Only the tactile physical world is real?

Hello? You read tarot cards – hello?

Myself – I know there are other ‘things’ out there. And they ain’t all good. You’ve not experienced them, and that’s fine.

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I agree. Of course there are demons. You can't believe in one without the other. There is balance - good/evil; light/dark; angels/demons; yin/yang; positive/negative etc etc etc

However the girl's comments are beyond ignorant and she should go on your "pay you no mind list."

franniee said:

I agree. Of course there are demons. You can't believe in one without the other. There is balance - good/evil; light/dark; angels/demons; yin/yang; positive/negative etc etc etc

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Good point.

But do I believe there are demons associated with Tarot cards? No.

I suppose there could be if the person using them chose to summon them, though, but they'd have to purposely do that. I don't think Tarot itself just naturally has them hanging around.

I'm not quite convinced that there is a necessity to Yin and Yang... yet.

Either way, bad guys or no, I do know from personal experience, that although present even the good guys don't make their presence known UNTIL you ask them in specifically.

Right Tinkerbell?

Demon Goddess said:

Guys and Gals... maybe I'm way off base here...

But does anyone other than me wonder about the sanity of someone who believes in "demons"?

Boogeymen, tooth fairies... Santa Claus?

Hello?

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Demon Goddess said:

I'm not quite convinced that there is a necessity to Yin and Yang... yet.

Either way, bad guys or no, I do know from personal experience, that although present even the good guys don't make their presence known UNTIL you ask them in specifically.

Right Tinkerbell?

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Wait...so what are you really saying? Are they there or not? Or are they only there when you're ready? Or they don't exist until you're ready?

Or that only good spirit guides exist, but not silly ones or bad ones? Or that Melody is a figment?

Do spirits guides exist? Only if one is lost? Do the Nephilim exist? Please tell me something that does not sound like waffling.

And if you don’t know – them please state as such. I don’t know about others, but I’d appreciate it. (see it'd be nice to have a conversation, but I for one can't make heads or tails outta what you really are saying here - not trying to be obtuse, just looking for clarification. Thank you in advance)

Umbrae said:

Wait...so what are you really saying? Are they there or not? Or are they only there when you're ready? Or they don't exist until you're ready?

Or that only good spirit guides exist, but not silly ones or bad ones? Or that Melody is a figment?

Do spirits guides exist? Only if one is lost? Do the Nephilim exist? Please tell me something that does not sound like waffling.

And if you don’t know – them please state as such. I don’t know about others, but I’d appreciate it. (see it'd be nice to have a conversation, but I for one can't make heads or tails outta what you really are saying here - not trying to be obtuse, just looking for clarification. Thank you in advance)

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I'm saying, I've been saying that "evil" is a human creation and does not exist in the spirit world.

Fwiw, I am not entirely beyond some psychiatrist making the same assessment that my daughter made: that Melody is indeed MY imaginary friend.

I believe in Melody, how can I not. As a consequence, I believe what she tells me.