Let´s talk about nudity...

Cat* said:

I'm not sure if I've written this before (no time to check the thread), so forgive me if I'm repeating myself here.

I think that erotic imagery (possibly but not necessarily including nudity) can serve as a symbolic language just like, say, religious imagery can. This doesn't work for everyone, and it certainly doesn't have to. It does work for me, though, which is why I can read with an erotic deck on a multitude of topics. I simply understand the "language" of the deck in question. It doesn't even matter much in terms of my reading abilities if I find the images erotically stimulating myself or not.

Not that there's anything wrong with getting erotic pleasure out of a tarot deck, mind you. Sure, you can get erotic stimulation elsewhere, too, but reading tarot with your favorite adult magazine/video/book might be a little difficult - so there's nothing wrong with going for the multipurpose item!

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I don't know if it was written before, but I do agree with everything you said here.

Oh, I didn't mean to give the impression that I look down on erotic decks. I don't. If I'd own an erotic deck, however, I'd probably be unable to read on an multitude of topics like cat, I'd probably only use it for erotic/relationship readings like SunChariot. That said, let me state that

- I like to look at nekkid men just like any other gal

- If there are lots of naked women in a deck, not for esoteric/symbolic reasons, but to please the eye (which is perfectly ok with me), I'm with everyone who insisted on an equal share of male eye candy for the female viewer.

So, bring on the Studmuffin Tarot for the Emancipated Reader

tigerlily said:

So, bring on the Studmuffin Tarot for the Emancipated Reader

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And why are there a couple of Tarots designed for the gay male (one of which has one or two token lesbian images), but nothing at all for girls who love girls? Hurumph!

nisaba said:

And why are there a couple of Tarots designed for the gay male (one of which has one or two token lesbian images), but nothing at all for girls who love girls? Hurumph!

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But didn't you know that "feminist" was just polite code for "lesbian"?

ETA: I am a girl who loves girls. (Very generally speaking, so as not to get sidetracked into detailed discussions of identity labels and the reasons for (not) picking them.)

Pity about the men in the Lovers cards, then <sigh>.

nisaba said:

Pity about the men in the Lovers cards, then <sigh>.

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Oh, they're just butches in disguise. Squint a bit and you'll see. Or maybe we can count them as transmen and still have them counted under the LGBTQ umbrella?

Amashelle said:

If the nudity in the cards is supposed to represent freedom and being at ease with one's appearence, being comfortable with yourself exactly the way you were made... then why do all the women always have shaved legs?

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I think this is an EXTREMELY relevant point. I remember the people who most loudly criticized singer Paula Cole for not shaving under her arms when she went to the Grammy Awards were all women. For some reason we have all agreed upon this ideal in which women are hairless creatures. And lofty thoughts aside I think if the Druidcraft Star (just to use one card as an example) did have unshaved legs people would focus all their attention on that and find the card hard to read. Take the reactions to the Sun card from that deck. No one can get past the kid's weird face.

The Druidcraft does a fabulous job of featuring "real" people. Very few of the people in the deck are 10's - The Queen of Pentacles will never be on the cover of Vogue and the King of Swords would not pose for Men's Health Magazine. But their looks (I feel) are created to fit the ideals of their elemental suits so perfectly that we don't notice that. The Queen looks earthy, the King looks intellectual - half my work as a reader is done.

nisaba said:

Pity about the men in the Lovers cards, then <sigh>.

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I could be wrong but did the Daughters of the Moon Tarot have a girl/girl lovers option?

But I agree - more lesbian tarots should be created! We just need people to work on them. Who is volunteering? If I help we will probably end up with a U-Haul on the Chariot... that's not a bad idea is it. I agree that it's not enough to say "Lesbians can use the Motherpeace since it's womany enough" I think a deck that spoke to Sapphic ideals would be a great deck.

There are definitely some girls who love girls appearing in decks though. No one can convince me or my lesbian friends that the Queen of Wands from the Druidcraft (there's that deck again) is into guys. We have decided she celebrates her vitores in battle with a wench or two - and I say more power to her.

Shade said:

I think this is an EXTREMELY relevant point. I remember the people who most loudly criticized singer Paula Cole for not shaving under her arms when she went to the Grammy Awards were all women. For some reason we have all agreed upon this ideal in which women are hairless creatures. And lofty thoughts aside I think if the Druidcraft Star (just to use one card as an example) did have unshaved legs people would focus all their attention on that and find the card hard to read. Take the reactions to the Sun card from that deck. No one can get past the kid's weird face.

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I noticed that in the Druidcraft, the men also have long, slender, smooth and hairless legs. Look at the Hanged Man, and the four of swords !
Hairless as far as we can see, that is - they could be blond probably For a painter, it is easier to paint hairless limbs than limbs with hair on.
I like Will Worthingtons paintings, but his humans are not as true to nature as for example his wild flowers are.

Shade said:

But I agree - more lesbian tarots should be created! [...] I think a deck that spoke to Sapphic ideals would be a great deck.

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I don't think we need any lesbian decks. I've written about my reasons elsewhere but have problems with the search function right now (as I did yesterday). But I'll come back later and add a link.

And I seriously have no idea AT ALL what "Sapphic ideals" might be (and here I think I'm well-versed in LGBTQ whatever!). Could you please clarify what you mean by that, Shade?

Cat* said:

I don't think we need any lesbian decks. I've written about my reasons elsewhere but have problems with the search function right now (as I did yesterday). But I'll come back later and add a link.

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Found it! Go here for details. (The thread is called "lesbian deck," and there are of course other interesting posts in it, too.)