Ethics on Where to Read Cards


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seafra
How difficult is it to ask if you can read your cards when you have entered a private place of business before you assume no one will have a problem with it? Isn't that the best approach so that no one is put in an awkward position?
I just don't see the need actually since it has never ever been a problem in any hotel, cafe, bar or restaurant I have ever been to. Since I don't see that I am doing anything that I should assume would concern anyone else in the room - it has nothing to do with them as the people doing sudoku puzzles, knitting, or having their monthly book group at other tables have nothing to do with me - I am not going to ask permission. So if someone has an issue with me readings cards at their establishment then it would be their job to come up to me and tell me. All of the private places of business I have read at in the last 14 years were happy to have me as a customer.
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You equate reading cards to doing crosswords puzzles. This may be true in some areas of the world, in the US. It is not true in my area where I have been accosted by bible thumpers for reading in public.

Not once did I see you mention that there may be an awkward situation if the lobby is small and privacy isn't available. Yet I've read where you are ready to see written policy (we do not need one, our rights are reserved), take names, make phone calls, post on various sites which do not provide for the staff's POV.

As both a hotel employee and a reader I feel much depends on where you are. We have 4-star resturants with dress codes here. I'd just as soon eat my cards as take them out and do a reading with them in these establishments.

It appears that you think it doesn't matter where, that physical locale or the feel of a property or the physical set up of a property does not matter. I strongly disagree and we will have to agree to disagree.
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Well Seafra, I think we are speaking in hypotheticals, not just about your lobby. If your lobby is not set up in a way that is conducive to people sitting down and talking with one another then there is no reason anyone will be there reading cards for the same reason no one will be there for their book club. So when I talk about reading in hotel sitting areas or lobbies I really can't speak to your space. But the original idea of the thread was about reading places in public or semi-public places in general. I feel like you keep making this thread about you - but I can understand that as it was your position on tarot in your lobby that set off quite a flurry of posts. I have never met you and I would hope that if we ever meet we will get along wonderfully. But for my responses I am talking about hypothetical hotel staff. Otherwise the whole conversation would get bogged down with things like "I would never read at the W Hotel on Third street because the lobby is too noisy." Great topic if we are talking about where in downtown SF to read about not great to discuss the ethical issues about where we read.

The mention of asking for a written policy is a technique that is often effective. When you say to someone "can I see your written policy about that?" a whole load of people will say "Oh... I'll go see" and then they tend to go off and not bother with you. I am not questioning your legal rights to refuse service. Asking for a manager's name is not done to be mean. It is a way of saying "Are you serious about this? Will your employer be happy with you when they hear you decided to press this issue?" Wouldn't most customer service choices need to make management feel like someone handled the issue in a certain way?

I am very sorry to hear you have had bad experiences with Bible thumpers - they can be a real pain in the root chakra ;-) They also tend to (generalizing generalizing generalizing) act like everyone needs to do things the way their Bible translation tells them it should be done. I just can't live my life worrying that I might offend them with my tarot cards. So back to my customer service comment. In your neck of the woods - if the consensus is "good businesses won't let people openly read tarot" - then it is probably true that many will feel like it is good customer service to not have tarot read around them. So in this case you will have one or two offended people who feel they were treated badly and a whole bunch of other people who are satisfied. But I as the hypothetical reader will still feel offended.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seafra
post on various sites which do not provide for the staff's POV.
I think you will be very happy to know that Yelp has decided to let businesses respond to reviews. In the future business owners will be able to leave their own notes sayying "well what had happened was..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade
I am very sorry to hear you have had bad experiences with Bible thumpers - they can be a real pain in the root chakra ;-) They also tend to (generalizing generalizing generalizing) act like everyone needs to do things the way their Bible translation tells them it should be done. I just can't live my life worrying that I might offend them with my tarot cards. So back to my customer service comment. In your 'hood - if the consensus is "good businesses won't let people openly read tarot" - then it is probably true that many will feel like it is good customer service to not have tarot read around them. So in this case you will have one or two offended people who feel they were treated badly and a whole bunch of other people who are satisfied. But I as the hypothetical reader will still feel offended.
Good points, and I think I would still feel offended too. Even if I asked first and was told no, and politely walked away -- which is no doubt what I'd do. I think it's just that something so important to me being faced with rejection feels -- well -- crappy. I have spent my whole life feeling in one way or another that I was a bit odd -- as I think many people do. It's not that I'm whining about that. We're just a vast array of individuals, and for many of us the norm isn't reality. It's tough to get that thrown back in one's face. Especially, IMO, if it's because of some Bible thumper who doesn't seem to care that what they're doing offends someone else. It seems to be a one way street with a lot of these extremist religious types. I'm tired of stories where the religious fanatic wins.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade
So if someone has an issue with me readings cards at their establishment then it would be their job to come up to me and tell me. All of the private places of business I have read at in the last 14 years were happy to have me as a customer.
I've been in and out of cafes, usually with decks, for over two decades, and it has only happened to me once, just a couple of months ago. Mind you, I *never* read for someone else (generating income) on someone else's space without their prior knowledge and consent. I'm talking about just going in with a Tarot deck the way you might with the said sudoku or knitting.

I sit there *with* a paid-for coffee or a full meal (it is atrociously rude to use their space without giving them something in return!) and maybe quietly pull a few cards for myself. On thi occasion I had a brand-new deck with me, which I was getting to know for the purposes of writing a review, and while it is specifically not an erotic deck (it is an art deck, modelled on the style of a well-known artist), it was full of nudes: men, women, old, young, children, fat, one the edge of death by starvation, and none of them except perhaps the Moon looking at all even healthy, let alone sexual (I don't know about you but I don't lust after sick people). It was a quiet time of day, and the only other customers in the cafe were way down the other side of the room, talking among themselves. I very much doubt they were even aware I was there.

The waitress was, though. To serve them and reach the kitchen, she needed to walk past my table. After a few trips, she came over and politely asked me to put away my deck because the "pornographic images" were "disturbing the other customers". I glanced at them - they were oblivious. I gathered up the cards off the table with good grace and complied. After all,

1) I had not paid to use the space,
2) she was very polite
3) it was a reasonable request even if it was based on a half-lie - the person disturbed was probably her.

Afterwards, I finished my coffee and lingered. I certainly wasn't going to be rude and be seen to rush off after being asked to put them away. I also have not boycotted the place - I am happy to go back. You see, I don't feel an insane compulsion to wave Tarot cards in other people's faces every single time I leave the house.
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Oh, for the record, I really don't think that, in my judgement, the waitress was either a "Bible-thumper" or a "religious fanatic". Just a young, pleasant, friendly girl trying to do a difficult job for which she is grossly underpaid.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade
I think you will be very happy to know that Yelp has decided to let businesses respond to reviews. In the future business owners will be able to leave their own notes sayying "well what had happened was..."
I am unhappy that these sites allow the posting of staff's names. It isn't like a business owner can post a retort and mention that "Mr Monroe of Mainville, MS, while intoxicated and under the mistaken notion that he was being charming and using his indoor voice ... blah blah blah."

But that's another issue all together.
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Quote:
nisaba:
Oh, for the record, I really don't think that, in my judgement, the waitress was either a "Bible-thumper" or a "religious fanatic". Just a young, pleasant, friendly girl trying to do a difficult job for which she is grossly underpaid.
In this case though, it seems to me, that it wasn't that you had Tarot Cards out. Rather it was the images on the cards being in public view, which could have been seen by some people as being of a pornographic nature...

Welf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welf
In this case though, it seems to me, that it wasn't that you had Tarot Cards out. Rather it was the images on the cards being in public view, which could have been seen by some people as being of a pornographic nature...

Welf
Whichever it was, nisaba was being respectful of another person's discomfort. Being what my friend called "the nicer person" I mentioned further up.
<clap clap> as she would say !

And I repeat - a hotel is NOT a public place. We do not have the same "rights" in a hotel as we do in the middle of Central Park.
Top   #190
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