Ethics on Where to Read Cards


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le fey  le fey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seafra

There is a difference between discussing tarot in public and doing readings in public. I'm going to assume here, which I hate, that you have not read in public often. I've had a few hairy experiences with bible thumpers and have been accused of working on behalf of the Devil. I don't want that happening in the lobby.
You know, I don't think you need to justify your position one bit - you're in a business where your job is to act as your employer's representative to create an atmosphere that is reflective of what they want to present. You've said your employer would be livid to find readings being done in the lobby - end of story. Your job is to not allow situations that will make your employer livid.

But I do hope you can understand that at a personal level... it can get aggravating that in a situation where one person is quietly reading cards and another person comes up and starts bible thumping and hurling accusations about the Devil here... its the quiet one that is labeled the disruption that needs to be removed.

Again... no argument at all that you need to focus on what your employer's policies and wishes are, but wouldn't it be great when disruptions are based on actually being disruptive rather than quietly doing something that disruptive people can loudly take issue with?
Top   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 214red
I don't push their discomfort, but its their discomfort and thats not my fault. like i said, if i am not comfortable with something someone is reading or doing near me, I move...its my issue not theirs.

I have read in many hotels, bars, cafes, pancake shops etc and not had an issue with the owners etc.

if they had an issue i wouldn't go back and likely would let my friends know about the treatment i got.
If someone had upset YOU and the management had asked them to stop, would you not go back on that account too ? It may be your issue rather than theirs - but also there may be nowhere else for you to go (as Seafra says - lobbies get smaller every day...!)
Top   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le fey
But I do hope you can understand that at a personal level... it can get aggravating that in a situation where one person is quietly reading cards and another person comes up and starts bible thumping and hurling accusations about the Devil here... its the quiet one that is labeled the disruption that needs to be removed.
CERTAINLY the bible thumper would need to be removed in that case. But thumping it is different from just sitting reading a book. I would never suggest that someone who came and screamed at you should not be the one removed - but if someone goes quietly to the desk and says how uneasy it makes them.... or even says to you that they can't go upstairs just now as they are waiting for someone but that you are really frightening them - I would stop; wouldn't you ? As I recall, causing others discomfort is called bad manners.
Top   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregory
If someone had upset YOU and the management had asked them to stop, would you not go back on that account too ? It may be your issue rather than theirs - but also there may be nowhere else for you to go (as Seafra says - lobbies get smaller every day...!)
i wouldnt do that, i leave people to their own devices. if someone yells at me and the staff do nothing then i would complain to them and tell people i know about the treatment i got.

there is always somewhere else to go...i hate prejudice because i have suffered all my life with it, so therefore i would not do that to someone else
Top   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregory
I don't refer to the HOTEL's morals; I am thinking of what a hotel should do when one guest upsets another guest - whether or not we think it reasonable for them to be upset.... By all means avoid the GUEST, but....
Anybody's morals and phobias that impinges on my freedom, Gregory. I leave, that's all there is to it. What if you start doing something innocuous that causes discomfort in another guest because they have a phobia? You would stop, of course - but would you not do it in the first place on the off-chance that someone has a phobia? Of course not. Tarotphobia is no different from any other phobia. And then - what if all the guests start insisting their own particular phobia must be respected - where do we go? How much do other guests have to be inconvenienced to accommodate the particular phobia of someone?

"I can't stand open windows" - cue to shut all windows in the hotel, to the discomfort of all the other guests.

"I hate air conditioning" - ditto.

"I have a fear of heights, even in a photograph" - so we take down the large mountain photo behind the reception desk.

Tarotphobia is no more reasonable than the above.

But as I said, I were were ever to be made to feel uncomfortable for using tarot, I wouldn't make a fuss, I would just leave and take my custom elsewhere.


Re: corners - as I said in my first post, I wouldn't read in a lobby where there is no space and everyone is on top of each other. It's not comfortable for reading tarot, or for most other activities, actually.
Top   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudugazi
Tarotphobia is no different from any other phobia.
Strongly disagree here. And this isn't about Tarotphobia -- it is about the practice of activities that might be deemed uncomfortable for other guests performed in a shared space that is ill equipped for it.

We don't allow alcohol in the lobby and we don't suffer from alcoholophobia -- or whatever. We don't allow dogs and we have pet-friendly rooms. We keep an eye on public displays of affection yet we have children so, nope, no phobia there. Wouldn't allow accordion playing either. And if someone gets ignorant about any of the above, well, police can and do escort them off the premises. We keep a list of banned guests.

So if you want to holler, go ahead. This is the odd animal that is the hotel business.
Top   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregory
CERTAINLY the bible thumper would need to be removed in that case. But thumping it is different from just sitting reading a book. I would never suggest that someone who came and screamed at you should not be the one removed - but if someone goes quietly to the desk and says how uneasy it makes them.... or even says to you that they can't go upstairs just now as they are waiting for someone but that you are really frightening them - I would stop; wouldn't you ? As I recall, causing others discomfort is called bad manners.
Oh absolutely - I make a point not to deliberately draw attention to myself in public and I live in a town that sounds very similar to what Seafra is describing (in fact, I DO put generic covers on my Tarot books if I'm going to sit somewhere in public and want to read them... or simply choose a less controversial book to take along to doctor's offices and the like).

Even at that, I read weekly at a local coffee house - but it was one that was known to be 'eccentric' and I had the approval and support of the owners as long as I avoided both open mic night (for obvious reasons) and Wednesdays because they had a growing number of clients coming in after bible study and didn't want to lose that night's business (again, an obvious issue).

I absolutely get the realities of what Seafra has to deal with and insisting she not do her job makes no sense. But part of the reality is that odds are not high that the person with the deck of cards is ever going to - quietly or otherwise - go to the manager and say 'that guy over there making giving me the evil eye and muttering about hell everytime he looks at me is making me nervous... does he need to hang out here?" So its probably never going to be a level situation - and managers have to attend to the squeaky wheels.

I'm just musing in a 'wouldn't it be nice' way if the default assumption in society weren't that the mere sight of some illustrated card stock wasn't regarded as something so dangerous and discomfiting that it must must be protected against, anymore than the mere sight of someone reading a book on a subject one dislikes.

ah well.
Top   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudugazi

"I can't stand open windows" - cue to shut all windows in the hotel, to the discomfort of all the other guests.

"I hate air conditioning" - ditto.

"I have a fear of heights, even in a photograph" - so we take down the large mountain photo behind the reception desk.

Tarotphobia is no more reasonable than the above.
Seriously? I mean, really?!

No, it isn't a cue to shut all the windows. Air conditioning will not get shut off in the lobby and they can look away from the sail boat posters so they won't suffer seasickness.

But apparently hairs will be split.
Top   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregory
Yes - I agree it's absolutely fine as long as no-one minds. The issue was what if someone does - where is the line drawn ? I think no-one likes pushing it to the discomfort of others - I hope ?
Of course I agree with Fudugazi and 214red. But with what Gregory says ,I don't . I am hearing things like we need to set an example for the Tarot industry and how can we bring Tarot to the forefront in a positive light if we show rebelliousness towards someone asking for us not to do this. I say how can we even begin to bring the Tarot out of the dark ages if we still treat it like that in front others. By cowarding away so quick, we imply, in the name of being a good neighbor , that this is wrong and taboo. We reinforce the belief that it is “black magic” and “the devils work”.

Remember, in America not that long ago, Tattoos were considered wrong for “proper” people even though they have been around since the dawn of man. If you had a Tat , you were looked upon as a criminal, thug ect with exception of course.... Now, for the most part, its excepted in a positive light. My heart Dr. has the medical symbol on his arm. I dont think we got to that point by covering up our tats for the sake of others.

I do want to emphases that I am not talking about getting in someone face and starting a brawl over this. I would simply question why I was being ask to put my cards up and go from there. Was someone upset.? Was I being loud? Or was I just being. If we could not resolve this I would complain to the highest authority and go from there. My comment on a previous post about being thrown out was just a figure of speech, but I certainly would not roll over like a good dog because of ignorance. Ignorance breeds fear
and fear breeds insecure children of the night...And thats what we reduce our selfs to when we succumb to the comfort of others for their ignorance.
Top   #89
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Sometimes, we forget that possibly enforcing what we consider our rights could impinge on what someone else considers theirs.

Seafra lives in a very different cultural environment than some of the rest of us, and honestly, it is the owner's discretion what they allow. A good employee tries to follow through with their boss' wishes. A hotel is private property, and there is a reason you have to sign all those papers when you check in. A good business practice would be to accommodate as many as your guests' wishes as possible, but a hotel is under no obligation to allow any guest to do anything in the public areas.

I read tarot cards and the Bible in public places, usually a coffee shop, where I also work on my laptop, read textbooks and novels as well. I would be surprised to be asked to not do any of those things, as long as I was not causing a disturbance, but I would not make a scene about it. I would most likely not return, though.

As to the original question, I find coffee shops to be the easiest place for a bit of privacy. People so rarely care what is going on in them.

I am surprised that this conversation has generated this amount of debate. Wouldn't it be better for everyone, including the reader, to just find a drama free place to read? I know I couldn't reach the quiet, introspective state needed in the face of a possible confrontation.
Top   #90
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