Tao Oracle: Questions


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RAVENAL  RAVENAL is offline
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RAVENAL 
changing lines


Raven...

the last paragraph is still confusing but I understand the rest...

do you read lines that change from yin to yang...and...yang to yin as the actual changing lines...or like my method...the lines that are the same...yin to yin...and...yang to yang as the true changing lines...this is the confusion...these different methods give different lines for the reading and thus different meanings...

do you understand this difference I see in methods...???
Top   #11
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Re: Tao oracle...symbols...changing lines...


Quote:
Originally posted by RAVENAL

AMAYA...and what is the system you are using...or maybe you are not reading the changing lines at all...a more indepth sample reading would be very interesting...your interpretations...there is always something new to be learned by seeing what others are doing...and what do you both do with reversals...
Hello.. I haven't had much time lately to work with any of my cards, tarot or oracle.. I haven't even pulled daily cards. I suppose I am slacking here . I mentioned earlier in this thread that I haven't ever studied the system of I Ching before. So I am clueless on this factor. When I have pulled daily cards from this deck I interpreted the actual image more than paid attention to the changing lines and elemental factors. I hope to change this soon. Also I rarely use reversals.. so I haven't used them with this deck.

I need to catch up with you two on the posts. Soon as I read and digest the other few posts I will comment more. I am very interested in sharing what I can here

Amaya
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Re: changing lines


Quote:
Originally posted by RAVENAL
Raven...

the last paragraph is still confusing but I understand the rest...

do you read lines that change from yin to yang...and...yang to yin as the actual changing lines...or like my method...the lines that are the same...yin to yin...and...yang to yang as the true changing lines...this is the confusion...these different methods give different lines for the reading and thus different meanings...

do you understand this difference I see in methods...???
I think she means the lines that are different between the 2 hexagrams. Only read the lines that are different. Of course, who knows? Maybe you have come up with something original!
Top   #13
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RAVENAL 
reading methods for changing lines


Hi Sunflowr

Great to see/hear another voice/thought...but now I am even more confused...seems quite humorous at the moment and I am giggling/chuckling...these forum conversations are fun but leave lots of room to become confused or in my case...even more confused...but for me it's early...time of daywise and this is not a time when I am at my best...still slowed down and somewhat foggy...it's my natural timecycle to be the owl/nightperson...this lark persona...is still waking up...

thanks for your posting...do you have/use this deck...it is my favorite of the moment and it is one of just the few I own...choosing limits in this part of my life...I got it in February of this year...I think...again the lark...sort of groggy now with dates...

I use my changing line system because this is the energy flow I see/sense...the imbalance caused by samenesss...(yin/yin...yang/yang) which/changes the energy flow into something else...and this is the way I read the explaination from the book...only the same lines which match get read as the actual lines that change...(the change is at the matching time still future potiential...imbalanced...not yet flipped...but in now identifing and reading these same lines...the changed energy read now as the changing line...becomes this future potiential manifested...because the line is identified and then read...and also would change because it is unatural unbalanced energy...) but maybe that is somewhat unclear...this wording...both my explaination here and in the book...so if you have the book I would greatly appreciate it if you would check out this reference and then reply again...

and more confusion too...funny...who is the "she "you refer to and who is the "you"...see my confusion...waiting with humor to see what you have meant...now to breakfast...check back later...maybe more awake and less confused/foggy...more myself...Ravenal (but I am also Raven...have been so for almost forever...many years...) I am female...Raven...Ravenswing...he is male...I read same/same lines as changing...he reads different lines as changing lines...???...I think...curious to see his reply...maybe we have confused him...different systems...different meanings...YES...
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Ravenswing 
different samenesses...


Ravenal--

Perhaps we're just acting out the yin/yang-ness of the system...would make a good male/female-- light/dark--this/that sort of thing wouldn't it?

Maybe we just start out at opposite (?) ends and meet in the middle...

fly well
Ravenswing
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RAVENAL 
the Tao...yin/yang...middle ground...


Ravenswing...Raven...

Perhaps...a close proximity...the artist/author says this Oracle is " intended as a bridge"...

TAO is harmony...NATURE...a whole a cosmos not in chaos...this is the nature of the TAO...meaning different things for different people...moving within the flow...not against it...wisdom springs from the same source...YES...???
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The Holitza cards work that way. You draw two cards and examine which lines move to get from one to the other. Then those are the 'moving lines' in the reading.
I actually studied I Ching for many years, and even though I now love tarot as well, I tend to revert to I Ching in times of stress, my old master, so to speak.
Ravenal, your interpretations are very fascinating. Most commentary on the IC is very dry, almost mathematical. The IC web sites tend to get into painfully long, academic discussions which is why I could never stay with them for long. Your descriptions are the first time that I have ever seen anyone (besides my humble self) see the cards that way.
The IC says of itself that it is a system which includes the whole world. Nothing cannot be touched by it, from the simplest problem to matters of the greater world and beyond that to the spirit.
The moving lines are important because they mirror how everything changes. It is, after all, called "The Book of Changes". Things flow into other forms, other ideas, other worlds. Panta Rei, everything flows. Sometimes slowly, sometimes with astonishing speed. The moving lines echo the flows of energy in a situation, they show the longer term effects of now-small forces that may in time have a huge impact on a situation.
You would draw a card and look at the hexagram. Then draw another card and check tha hexagram. See which broken lines had to become closed and which closed lines had to become broken to get from the first card to the second card. If a broken line becomes closed, it mean that yin energy became yang. And if a closed line becomes broken, it means that Yang energy gets transmuted to yin energy.
As in tarot the placement of the lines is important. The lower three lines represent the Lower Kingdom, the Earth. The middle three lines represent Man and the upper three lines represent Heavan (yes, there are overlaps). The lines also interact with each other and have meanings. The two central lines, lines 2 and 5, represent leaders or those in charge. The ones just beneath them are helpers, or a variation on that. The first line is just starting whatever the hexagram represents and the last line is just finishing it.
Well, there is more, but that's a bit about the lines. Hope that helps and didn't just cloud things.
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RAVENAL 
tao...changing lines...


Marion...

Thank You...thankyou...so beautifully worded and explained...
this greatly helps me in interpretation...though I have still the sense of reading the lines that change with same/same imbalance...causing the flipping...and being read as changing lines...I also from another perspective see and always did so the other way of lines changing...one more subtle maybe than the other...but this is Tao...ALL CHANGE...wisdom...

And something new for me now to use...I did not know of the
traditional meanings of each lines positions detailed meanings...
I only saw/felt the time/space flow of energy from bottom to top...and sensed/knew the broken line yin receptive...unbroken line yang directed energy quality and movement implications... this now adds a new layer of understanding...and opens another door for contemplation...so thank you once again...I hope you will join us in this thread...often...your insight is appreciated...

I very instinctively choose each moment how I read/interpret any card/event...this is not reaction necessarily but comes closest to it...and reaction also has an impact...of course there is intuition...and reasoning...and experience...projection...the communication of ideas from others...so much more really...I am always free to make choices/changes...need it and feel comfortable mostly in it...experienced as my ever changing life has taught me...so I can imagine myself using both systems to play this game of life seen through the cards...it narrows the focus...temporarily...which can be beneficial in moving through the energy and allowing the energy to move through you...stability in motion...not paradox...TAO...
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Alta 

Your intuitive understanding of the hexagrams is correct (well, correct in the classical sense, anything can be correct for a person). The energy is generally regarded as flowing in at the bottom and out at the top. Take the House of The Creative for example. This is the sequence 1, 44,33, 12, 20,23, 35, 14. Get out the cards and look at them. The house starts with 1, The Creative, the primal Yang power, raw strength and the power to make things happen. 44 shows yin quietly and unobtrusively entering at the bottom. The weak comes to meet the strong, but it bodes weakening of the yang power. 33 shows yin growing in strength, and gradually the yin power, which looked so weak in card 44 threatens to topple the whole structure. In card 20 there is that sublime moment, Contemplation. Much has been accomplished and yet is to be lost. It is the quiet moment when all is assessed, and then comes card 23 when the yang power fails. The dark forces forces topple it and it collapses. But what is the next in the sequence, 35, the sun rising over the earth followed by 14, Possession in Great Measure. There is much wisdom in the 8 Houses. Once again they show the message that everything changes. Whether it be the flow of energy through the hexagram or the the seuqence as things grow, mature, become stagnant and hard, then fall and are re-born. There are countless examples in history. Take Rome or Greece, in their young, might nations, but gradually corruption and evil crept in. the government became hard and inflexible and eventually toppled. From that, young vigorous states could begin the process again.
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RAVENAL 
Tao...wisdom...


Marion

YES...seeing these 8 cards laid out has been instructive...lines and symbols...colors and images...numbers...the FLOW...beautiful...all changing...motion...order in chaos...becomming...
natural cycles/spirals...patterns...TAO...

But where is this 8 card sequence from..."The House of the Creative"...and yes History...always changing but repeating itself...as an art/art history...archeology and anthropology student...this is always seen/recognised...
images...symbols...forms... patterns...the many layers...the underlying stratta...evolution...natural cycles...all changing...
eternal...TAO...

Thanks again for sharing yourself...and your wealth of information...wisdom...much appreciated...YES...
Top   #20
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