Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews - Tarot Forum - Free Tarot Readings - Tarot Card Meanings - Tarot Spreads

Mulk Wa-Nawwb (Mamluk) card images


> Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot Special Interest > Tarot History & Development



 
bradford  bradford is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 15 Jun 2005
Location: SW Mtns, Colorado
Posts: 280
bradford 

Great thread folks.
Learning lots but not much to offer.
I've been on the lookout for Islamic connections to both
Tarot and QBLH for a long time, even as far as China,
where the Arabs first got paper (7th cent).
Found one twixt Yijing and QBLH that was likely an Arab connection.
There's a few pages about an early Arabic Tarot in Idries Shah's
the Sufis (an appendix?), where he discusses a few of the Trumps.
But of course it's hard to picture Trump figures in a deck with any
connection to Islam - they had to convey any sense of divinity
in arabesque patterns.
Top   #21
kwaw's Avatar
kwaw  kwaw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
Posts: 5,400
kwaw 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradford
Great thread folks.
Learning lots but not much to offer.
I've been on the lookout for Islamic connections to both
Tarot and QBLH for a long time, even as far as China,
where the Arabs first got paper (7th cent).
Found one twixt Yijing and QBLH that was likely an Arab connection.
There's a few pages about an early Arabic Tarot in Idries Shah's
the Sufis (an appendix?), where he discusses a few of the Trumps.
But of course it's hard to picture Trump figures in a deck with any
connection to Islam - they had to convey any sense of divinity
in arabesque patterns.
Diane O'Donovan maintains that the trumps, especially those of the so called 'Charles VI' deck, are devices connected to astronomical constellations. This would create no problem with Islamic sources, while figurative art was banned in specifically religious contexts, such as mosques, it was used in secular arts and sciences, such as astronomical manuscripts. See post here:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.p...8&postcount=40

Kwaw
Top   #22
kwaw's Avatar
kwaw  kwaw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
Posts: 5,400
kwaw 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross G Caldwell
Maybe it also means a beaten sheet of silver.
'Waraq' also means "Silver that has been flattened into very thin leaves by hammering it between two leather sheets." The waraq or 'silver leaf' is then used to decorate food [e.g. commonly used on Indian sweets].

Kwaw
Top   #23
nigromancer700  nigromancer700 is offline
Resident
 
Join Date: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Northwest England
Posts: 98
nigromancer700 
Muluk Wa Nuwwab and Sufic Chess


Kwaw et al. hello,

In regard to the deeper implications of Muluk Wa Nuwwab and especially in the light of the fact that the four suits signs of scimitars, darahim, cups and polo-sticks form persistent symbolic metaphors in Persian mystical poetry and Sufi verse as our friend Paul Huson has clearly pointed out, my wife recently drew my attention to a page in Annemarie Schimmel's study 'The Triumphal Sun: A Study of the Works of Jalaloddinn Rumi' in a section on the significance of gaming as a metaphor in the Mevlana's verse -specifically Schimmel refers to an 18th century Indian text (presently extant only in untranslated manuscript at Delhi) on 'spiritual chess', in which the game of Chess is interpreted as a complete guide to the stations of the path of Tasawwuf and the mystical way of the Sufi - Paul H. has suggested that a similar resonance with the imagery of Muluk Wa Nuwwab cards might have been extant at some point and who knows what works in Arabic and Persian are lying untranslated in Near Eastern collections which might shed some light on this possibility. Maybe Idries Sayed Shah's fanciful correlation between Tarocchi and Tariqa might have something to it after all...

all the best
Nigel
Top   #24
Ross G Caldwell's Avatar
Ross G Caldwell  Ross G Caldwell is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 07 Jul 2003
Location: Bziers, France
Posts: 2,649
Ross G Caldwell 

Hi Nigel! Is that you? (the Nigel who sent me stuff, I mean)

I agree that the most interesting future research in playing cards will be done on the manuscripts and traditions of Iran and China, and their relations along the Silk Road. Unknown and untranslated barely begins to describe the extent of ignorance we have.

But I don't think we need to look there for Tarot. The four-suited (and eight-suited!) packs are equally noble and mysterious. This is why I cannot, with the occultists, call them the "Minor Arcana".

If anything, the four-suited pack is more "major" than the tarot trumps.
Top   #25
nigromancer700  nigromancer700 is offline
Resident
 
Join Date: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Northwest England
Posts: 98
nigromancer700 
Mulk Wa-Nawwb (Mamluk) card images


Ross hello! How nice to see you! Hope all's very well with you in Beziers and greetings from your 'twin town' here in the north of England
:-) Oh without doubt this field in the Iranian, central Asian and Arab world is something of a barely touched field and there is so much that has never been translated into European languages in that sphere - who knows what suggestive things might exist in manuscript collections!

On thing that puzzles me about the four suits of the Muluk Wa-Nawwab was whether the emblems, if they are signs of the four Cardinal Virtues, argue for a borrowing from the Greek world, as in Plato's 'Alcibiades' and Apuleius' words about the four virtues taught to the Persian king or the other way around as Paul Huson seems to suggest? The Golden Age of Islamic civilization seemed to be characterized by a systematic synthesis and refinement of classical learning from the Greco-Byzantine and Syrian cultures - one wonders which way the four emblems of the suits travelled in this respect - from Greek antiquity into the Middle East or from Iranian antiquity into the classical sphere?

all the best
Nigel
Top   #26
kwaw's Avatar
kwaw  kwaw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
Posts: 5,400
kwaw 
Letter Symbolism


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw
"Grids of fal-i quran are widespread and systematically included in Persian manuscripts of the 16th century, thus possibly revealing the application of popular Shici divinatory practices to the Quran." The key to the divination, besides the prognostication of the verse, is in the last letter of the verse.
Kwaw
I am not sure how the last letter is meant to be applied or interpreted, but in respect that we are talking of bibliomancy using the Qur'an it may relate to the Huruf-i-Muqatta'at, which are letters which are used as titles for over a quarter of Qur'anic Surahs. According to Farahi the letters with which the Surahs begin relate the ancient meanings of the letters to the topic of the Surah.

For example, the letter Ta [corresponding to the Hebrew Teth], is related to staff /serpent in arabic letter symbolism and its shape is supposedly related to the form of a serpent, and the verses commencing with Ta [for example Surahs Taha, Tasin and Tasin Mim] include the incident of the Staff of Moses changing into a serpent. Surah Nun [letter whose name is said to mean 'fish'] relates the tale of Jonah and the Whale. Those commencing with Alif [allah, one, alone] all deal with the theme of monotheism, and may also include other themes relating to the name or form of the letter [for example, alif is said to mean 'cow' and Surah Baqarah, commencing with letters Alif. Lam. Mim. is called 'The Cow' and includes the tale of the cow and its sacrifice].

[Farahi's theory is not excepted by all Qur'anic scholars, who say they were made by the prophet as identifiers to make memorization easier and having no significance or meaning in and of themselves.]

Relevant links [from which the above information was obtained]:

http://www.amin-ahsan-islahi.com/?=65

http://www.renaissance.com.pk/jlauqur97.html

https://mailman.rice.edu/pipermail/s...ch/041043.html

On Farahi see introduction to the Tadabbur i Quran here:

http://www.amin-ahsan-islahi.com/?se=35

Kwaw

PS: Hi Nigel - nice to hear from you again
Top   #27
kwaw's Avatar
kwaw  kwaw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
Posts: 5,400
kwaw 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw

The inscription on 'The Helper [or second viceroy] of Cups [or ten thousand, Myriads - a link with Chinese suits]' says:

Kwaw
In post here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.p...41&postcount=1

I have explained a possible model according to the rules of the game in:

Vives' Ludus Chartarum, 1545 - In the two red suits, cup and coins, the numeral cards reverse their values and the six captures the seven, the seven captures the eight, etc.(Kaplan Encyclopedia of Tarot Vol. I p.28)

By what I have called the 'Ledger Model'.


Credit – High - In the Black
10
09
08
07
06
05
04
03
02
01

----00----
01
02
03
04
05
06
07
08
09
10

Debit - Low - In the Red

The earliest record we have of black and red being connected to positive and negative numbers is Chinese. However, it is reversed, black negative and red positive. Given the earliest western records of Hindu numbers listing zero last rather than first, that is:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0

rather than

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

And the connection with Chinese suits [via the accepted link between Italian / Spanish suits and Mamluk, and via a same named suit of Mamluk with the Chinese 'ten thousand, myriads'] we may do a 'Chinese Ledger' as follows:


Red - Positive Number - High
Diamonds / Coins / Wealth - Hearts / Cups / Love
01
02
03
04
05
06
07
08
09

--- 00 / 10 ---
09
08
07
06
05
04
03
02
01
Black - Negative Number - Low
Clubs / Batons/ Labour - Spades / Swords / Strife

Kwaw
Top   #28
kwaw's Avatar
kwaw  kwaw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
Posts: 5,400
kwaw 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw
Diane O'Donovan maintains that the trumps, especially those of the so called 'Charles VI' deck, are devices connected to astronomical constellations.

Kwaw
Good News. Many of Diane O'Donovan is currently updating her essays, containing much original research, which will hopefully be on-line soon.

Diane has requested the site not be linked as yet as she is still working on it updating it.

Kwaw
Top   #29
kenji's Avatar
kenji  kenji is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 11 Mar 2004
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
Posts: 397
kenji 
Mamluk cards reproduction by Aurelia Books/Carta Mundi


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross G Caldwell
(BTW - the Mamluk deck was reprinted in facsimile some time ago, and included an essay by Dummett and Abu-Deeb (IIRC) with all the inscriptions translated. It would be nice to find this deck - I would buy it in an instant).
I have found a Japanese seller who has some packs in stock. If anyone would like to get one, send me a PM
Top   #30

 

More interesting threads on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum...





 


Elsewhere on Aeclectic Tarot
· Tarot Cards & Reviews
· Free Tarot Readings
· What's New
· Tarot Card Meanings

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· What's New

Copyright © 1996 - 2021 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.