"Devil" in Pagan decks

Rosanne

hippiewitchie said:
I understand some of the concepts of the Devil in traditional tarots: Bondage to materialism/ greed/ addictions/ excess...

I cannot wrap my head around those same concepts when confronted with Pagan decks where the "Devil" is the "Horned One", "Pan", "the Guardian" or some other Horned God or a Shamanistic type image (Merlin Tarot and LLewelyn come to mind)
As you know the Christin church borrowed the image of Pan and the Horned One for the Fallen Angel Lucifer (which was the star Venus anyway), Satan.
So there has come down to us a mixed message. It is hard to untangle the blended image.
As far as I can tell if you are Pagan you do not follow a monotheist concept.
You follow a Polytheist/Pantheist/Animist and possibly mythological view of things. Satan and the devil have been put in a soup with things that contain the words repress and despise, hatred, anti life, and fear. So it seems that Pagan beliefs deny this concept and think you are responsible for your actions etc - not the tempter Satan. So I would look at Pagan concepts and myth like Pan and the Horned One as a necessity of life - as an energetic opposing force or resistance, some times a trickster and sometimes a fertility symbol and sometimes a hero. He is the life force energy opposite- no really in Tandem with female deities. Quiet different to 'evil' and much more freeing.

~Rosanne
 

merissa_88

Does anyone know which decks were the first to go more towards the "fun" interpretation of this card? Did the Voyager Tarot come out after the pagan decks you mention?
 

nisaba

Caedryn said:
The trouble I have, is why is the devil always represented by the male gender in tarot. There are plenty of females who can be devils and very primal
Up until very, very recently, Devils had breasts. Rounded ones. Sometimes bigger on one side than the other, just to make the point.

The GD changed that. There are a *lot* of people who prefer pre-GD decks.
 

pasara

merissa_88 said:
Does anyone know which decks were the first to go more towards the "fun" interpretation of this card? Did the Voyager Tarot come out after the pagan decks you mention?
What do you mean by the "'fun' interpretation?"
 

northsea

merissa_88 said:
Does anyone know which decks were the first to go more towards the "fun" interpretation of this card? Did the Voyager Tarot come out after the pagan decks you mention?

The Voyager is from the 80s so it's an earlier deck than the ones mentioned, and it was the 80s or so when "fun" devils, like the Buckland Romani devil, became more commonplace. But many pre-GD devils, such as the Oswald Wirth devil, had a caduceus on the groin which is symbolic of the "fun" interpretation.
 

hippiewitchie

thanks for all the replys all! Definately helps!
 

shiresun

hippiewitchie said:
Thanks for trying Orenda!
I get WHY Pagan decks don't show a "Devil" on the cards. I have a problem relating some of the depictions on the decks relating to things that are excessive-
OK, Dionysus was excessive, partied, drank, had sex with everyone. I can relate him to the "Devil" . But I don't ever remember seeing him depicted as antlered.
I can see virility and ferral in the Druidcraft, but primal urges I relate to the Moon. Maybe I am way off base there.

Take "The Guardian" of the Merlin Tarot. My first pagan deck, and primarily the one I had in mind when I was posting the question. The card depicts a nude man in an antler cloak there are animals around. It's been a while since I looked at the card but I think he had a hand raised. To me he looks like he could be a Shaman, maybe the Hermit or Magician. OK, maybe a crazy man naked in the woods- again more Moon-ish. OK, Maybe I can buy Ferral. I can't get from "Ferral" back to "Devil".
I am back at stuck.

Coming from a Wiccan background, I put the name 'Temptation' on the traditional 'devil' card, when originally 'meeting' my first deck. To me, it is all about temptation, addictions, slavery, submission, bondage, whatever you want to say about it, it comes down to that which holds us back, keeps us captive. The Robin Wood, a traditional deck from a Wiccan background, shows the 'Devil' card as two people trapped in a darkness, each held to a treasure chest, not seeing that they are not physically bound to it, but cannot escape those invisible bonds unless, and until, they become aware that they are enslaved - self created enslavement - but non-the-less caught in the web.

Orenda said:
I think this is a fabulous question, and hits upon the symbolism and symbology of tarot. The Wiccan concept of the Horned God as found here

Orenda, I'm getting a broken link here. Though I did eventually find info in Wikipedia that may have been the link to which you were referring. Just wanted to let you know It is not working.

Peace,

Shire
 

Caedryn

nisaba said:
Up until very, very recently, Devils had breasts. Rounded ones. Sometimes bigger on one side than the other, just to make the point.

The GD changed that. There are a *lot* of people who prefer pre-GD decks.
'
Maybe they were just overweight male devils ;)

Hopena...thanks, was not aware of those decks.

~ C
 

Orenda

shiresun said:
Orenda, I'm getting a broken link here. Though I did eventually find info in Wikipedia that may have been the link to which you were referring. Just wanted to let you know It is not working.

Peace,

Shire
Thank you!! I have edited the original posting for the correct link, but all of the times it was quoted will continue to offer the broken link *doh*