Tarot and Astrology: Enhance Your Readings With the Wisdom of the Zodiac

rwcarter

Almost finished reading this almost a year after my last post. I do like the book, if for no other reason than I finally understand cardinal, mutable and fixed and how those apply to the court cards and pips! The last chapter I have to read is the one with the sample charts. I took a class at BATS this past weekend on a way to use tarot to look at horoscope charts in a different way than the author does. I'm looking forward to giving both methods a try (in my copious free spare time, of course).
 

Onaorkal

I borrowed this book at the public libray last summer but didn't have enough time to really delve into it. I found it really interesting though!

This weekend, to my big surprise, I found a really cheap copy in a convenience store at a service area on the highway! I bought it without a second thought :)

I can now take all the time I need to go through it. I'm happy to see that many people enjoyed it and found it useful. Also I have the French version and the cover is simply gorgeous!
 

Barleywine

As an "old hand" at astrology (I started working with it around 1970 right before I picked up tarot), I bought this for my Kindle to see whether good information is being passed on to the current generation. I only started it yesterday, but so far her observations about both tarot and astrology seem perfectly sound. What I'm really after is her handling of the Golden Dawn's system of decans.
 

Ruby Jewel

As an "old hand" at astrology (I started working with it around 1970 right before I picked up tarot), I bought this for my Kindle to see whether good information is being passed on to the current generation. I only started it yesterday, but so far her observations about both tarot and astrology seem perfectly sound. What I'm really after is her handling of the Golden Dawn's system of decans.

Good goin Barleywine....I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on the decans now...
 

Barleywine

I'm just getting onto the Kabbalah, Astrology and Tarot portion of the book.

She does a good job of clearly and simply showing how the Golden Dawn assigned planetary rulers to the 36 decans using the Chaldean order of the planets, starting logically with Mars in the first decan of Aries and then going Sun-Venus-Mercury-Moon-Saturn-Jupiter around the wheel in the counter-clockwise order of the zodiac. It thus becomes obvious why there are two instances of Mars rulership between the last decan of Pisces and the first decan of Aries: there are five sets of seven planets in the repeating Chaldean sequence, for a total of 35 possible assignments, but 36 slots to fill. All they did was start over again with Mars when they reached the end of the fifth set. While it seems like a force-fit or a simple matter of expediency, there is a certain inspired logic in having a double dose of fiery energy at the very beginning of the (Northern Hemisphere) seasonal cycle to kind of get things going with vigor - call it a "jump-start."

I did find one apparent anomaly in her table showing the assignment of the court cards to the Sephiroth on the Tree of Life. She has the Pages at both Chesed, the fourth Sephira, and at Malkuth, the tenth Sephira. However, her Tree of Life diagram that follows has the Princesses (Pages) in their more usual location in Malkuth, representing the "Daughter."

So far both her astrology and her tarot knowledge seem unassailable, but I'm slightly less convinced by her blending of the two because she sometimes gives too much emphasis to the astrological side of the equation rather then going for a true synthesis.
 

Barleywine

I went as far as I'm going to with this one. I stopped when I got to her coverage of the court cards. She gets the Queens right in accordance with Liber T, but either she ran afoul of the confusion created in the Golden Dawn papers between Kings and Knights, or she intentionally changed their attributions to meet her own viewpoint.

She says that Kings represent Air and Knights represent Fire, that Kings are fixed and Knights are mutable. In my version of Liber T (in Regardie's Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic), Kings ("sometimes called Knights") are mounted on horses and represent the Yod of Tetragrammaton (therefore Fire), and are all assigned to the fixed-mutable zodiacal split (e.g. King of Wands spans the last decan of Scorpio and the first two of Sagittarius).

Knights ("sometimes called Princes") are seated either in chariots or on thrones and represent the Vau of Tetragrammaton (therefore Air); they are all assigned to the last decan of cardinal signs and the first two of fixed signs.

The terminology is convoluted, since Kings (later titled Knights by Crowley) look for all the world like medieval knights and Knights (Crowley went with Princes for those) suggest the traditional seated kings. The key to the riddle is the association with the four elements ascribed to Tetragrammaton. Regardless of their mode of transportation, Kings align with Yod/Fire/"Father" and Knights with Vau/Air/"Son." There is a parenthetical note in Regardie's book on the subject ("All Kings should be on horses and all Knights should be on thrones or chariots"), and another in Crowley's 1912 publication of Liber T ("Note that the Kings are now called Knights, and the Princes are now called Kings. This is unfortunate, and leads to confusion . . . Remember only that the horsed figures refer to the Yod of Tetragrammaton, the charioted figures to the Vau.") These observations seem counter-intuitive in light of modern assumptions about the nature of kings and knights, but nevertheless the basis seems carefully laid out, if not all that well-substantiated for the critical enquirer.

Although Kenner's stated purpose was to follow the Golden Dawn model, it seems to me she went astray somewhere (unless I'm missing some key point in the Golden Dawn material). At least she shows the cross-sign alignment of the courts to decans, and doesn't associate the courts with the entirety of any one sign.

I can recommend this book for its basic astrological content, but I think it falls short of its goal with tarot.
 

Rachx

Would you have one to recommend Barleywine? I'd love to understand more about astrology in Tarot. Thank you x
 

Barleywine

Would you have one to recommend Barleywine? I'd love to understand more about astrology in Tarot. Thank you x

Sure! In his book Tarot Beyond the Basics, Anthony Louis has a chapter titled "Astrology 101 for Tarot Readers" that would give you a good start.
 

Rachx

Brill thanks Barleywine xx
 

Ruby Jewel

I went as far as I'm going to with this one. I stopped when I got to her coverage of the court cards. She gets the Queens right in accordance with Liber T, but either she ran afoul of the confusion created in the Golden Dawn papers between Kings and Knights, or she intentionally changed their attributions to meet her own viewpoint.

She says that Kings represent Air and Knights represent Fire, that Kings are fixed and Knights are mutable. In my version of Liber T (in Regardie's Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic), Kings ("sometimes called Knights") are mounted on horses and represent the Yod of Tetragrammaton (therefore Fire), and are all assigned to the fixed-mutable zodiacal split (e.g. King of Wands spans the last decan of Scorpio and the first two of Sagittarius).

Knights ("sometimes called Princes") are seated either in chariots or on thrones and represent the Vau of Tetragrammaton (therefore Air); they are all assigned to the last decan of cardinal signs and the first two of fixed signs.

The terminology is convoluted, since Kings (later titled Knights by Crowley) look for all the world like medieval knights and Knights (Crowley went with Princes for those) suggest the traditional seated kings. The key to the riddle is the association with the four elements ascribed to Tetragrammaton. Regardless of their mode of transportation, Kings align with Yod/Fire/"Father" and Knights with Vau/Air/"Son." There is a parenthetical note in Regardie's book on the subject ("All Kings should be on horses and all Knights should be on thrones or chariots"), and another in Crowley's 1912 publication of Liber T ("Note that the Kings are now called Knights, and the Princes are now called Kings. This is unfortunate, and leads to confusion . . . Remember only that the horsed figures refer to the Yod of Tetragrammaton, the charioted figures to the Vau.") These observations seem counter-intuitive in light of modern assumptions about the nature of kings and knights, but nevertheless the basis seems carefully laid out, if not all that well-substantiated for the critical enquirer.

Although Kenner's stated purpose was to follow the Golden Dawn model, it seems to me she went astray somewhere (unless I'm missing some key point in the Golden Dawn material). At least she shows the cross-sign alignment of the courts to decans, and doesn't associate the courts with the entirety of any one sign.

I can recommend this book for its basic astrological content, but I think it falls short of its goal with tarot.

It seems to me that changing things around causes tremendous confusion and a waste of time trying to reconcile the issues...so, in the interest of simplicity, I don't usually bother with too much technicality. The Knights, being the most energetic and mobile of the two, seem to fit with mutable energies and cadent houses, leaving the Kings to sit "stubbornly" on their "fixed" thrones in the fixed houses. I have no problem with putting the Knight primary with the Queen and letting the old King rule from retirement. But, I do not concern myself with the tetragammation....as I don't incorporate that into my personal practice with the tarot. Hence, I am unable to follow much of what you point to here in that regard.