Why did Eliphas Lévi link Le Mat with Shin?


> Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot Special Interest > Tarot History & Development



 
kwaw's Avatar
kwaw  kwaw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
Posts: 5,400
kwaw 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teheuti View Post
Sorry for the mistake and thanks for the clarification.

I was just wondering if this was an actual deck created by Etteilla or one created after he died? It does sound like either a missing link between Gébelin/Mellet and The Etteilla Tarot, or someone who is trying to draw the parallels between the two. The specific Hebrew Letter assignments are only mentioned as a footnote in Mellet, I believe.
I always read the footnotes first!

Gallica gives 1780-1820 for the lwb - the earliest reference I can find for the deck is 1807 - so post Alliette, but we do know he was influenced in his ordering by the reversed allegorical reading of Gebelin/Mellet so it is in keeping . . .

Kwaw
Top   #121
Huck  Huck is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 02 Jul 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,682
Huck 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw View Post
The Etteilla [i]
In Gebelin/Mellet, the fool coming at the end of the trumps in reverse order, after the bateleur, is aligned with the letter tau - but this deck combines the bateleur and fool as double images of the one card - number XXI, both of which would then be shin(?), and the 22nd card, the consultant, tau?

Kwaw

*
As with Gebelin/Mellet the allegory reads backwards, but here reverses the numbering of the cards:

1re SERIE

DITE SIÈCLE D'OR.

No. 1.

Voyage, terre, quatrième élément.
Sous le signe du Lion.

La dëesse Isis, au milieu d'un cercle forme par un serpent qui se mord la queue, représente l'univers, Le cercle est l'embleme des revolutions annuelles, et l'image de l'eternite, qui n'a ni commencement ni fin. Isis, que les Egyptiens consider comme l'origine de tout, semble prete a courir. Aux quatre coins du tableau sont les emblemes des saisons . . . L'Aigle,...Le Lion,... Le Boeuf,... le Jeune Homme...
. . .

No. 21

Le bateleur et le fou.
hi Stephen ,

on the plates of the Gebelin cards given by DDD after p. 148, presented there as from the edition 1781, you've clearly a "O" in connection to the Fool and and a "I" to the Bateleur.

Could it be, that the passage you're referring to, is just caused by missing editorial elegance, so just "meaningless"? (I don't see it for the moment)
Top   #122
kwaw's Avatar
kwaw  kwaw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
Posts: 5,400
kwaw 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teheuti View Post
It does sound like either a missing link between Gébelin/Mellet and The Etteilla Tarot, or someone who is trying to draw the parallels between the two.
Well, we already know that Etteilla's ordering of the cards is to an extent based upon the Gebelin/Mellet reversed reading of the sequence (in which rather than the raising of the dead they read judgement as the creation of man and woman for example).

Although it gives us a fool at XXI it does so in the context of a reversed ordering of the cards, so it still bears closely to its sequential relationship with the other cards (seen as 'paired' with the bateleur, after Junon/Papesse etc), so is very different still to Levi who divorces it from any standard sequential relationship. So it doesn't really bring us any nearer to explaining Levi's placement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huck View Post
hi Stephen ,

on the plates of the Gebelin cards given by DDD after p. 148, presented there as from the edition 1781, you've clearly a "O" in connection to the Fool and and a "I" to the Bateleur.

Could it be, that the passage you're referring to, is just caused by missing editorial elegance, so just "meaningless"? (I don't see it for the moment)
In Gebelin the sequence reads allegorically in reversed order - going from XXI the world to Bateleur I and Fool 0.

The Etteilla petit, clearly influenced by Gebelin, follows a 'reversed' allegorical sequence too, but has also renumbered them in a (somewhat changed*) order of their sequential reading from 'I The World/Isis' to a combined, double card @ XXI with the bateleur on one end and fool on the other (see the picture) to reflect that. It is not an editorial mistake - the renumbering and reversal of sequence with 'doubling' of some cards is clear and consistent.

kwaw
* For example, the virtues are together in Etteilla's Petit, and judgment (as creation of man and woman) comes after the creation of the elements (sun, moon, stars = fire, water, air):


1. 'l'universe (=21. The World)

2. A double tableau card, one representing 'the second element of fire' and the other 'victory' - and it is under the sign of leo.

The first tableau is of the sun (= 19. The Sun) - emblematic of twins, the union of man and woman, two in one body, the androgine. Also includes symbol of taurus as 'the more ancient sign'. The second tableau is 'victory' holding in one hand the laurel crown and in the other the palm-leaf of triumph. The nine of hearts, placed at the corner, means for both subjects, victory, happiness and success in major operations. This card, even if it is surrounded by sinister cards, is a very good omen: the sun's rays penetrate everything.

3. The first element water (=18. The Moon) Under the sign of cancer.
This tableau represents the moon and terrestrial animals. The designers shows wild and domestic animals by the wolf and the dog. . . The seven of clubs designates the same subject . . . this card announces sinister things.

4. Stars. The third element air . . . under the sign of aquarius. (=17. The Star) The 8 of hearts, a happy augur.

5. Creation of Man and Woman, generation. (=20. Judgment)
The ancients regard Mankind as a child of the earth (the teeth as seeds of Cadmus, the thrown stones of Pyrrha). . . the 10 of clubs in a piquet pack.

6. Terrestrial paradise, wicked man and woman. (=16. House of God, adam and eve expelled from the garden of eden as in the minchiate)

7. Force Majeure, enterprise (=15.The Devil)
This tableau is the last of the first series (of gold). It shows the wicked spirit Typhon. . .

So in Etteilla's Petit Dames the Gebelin/Mellet's 'age of gold' = 1-7 (= TdM 21-15 with judgment moved) :

(1)21, (2)19, (3)18, (4)17, (5)20, (6)16, (7)15
Top   #123
Huck  Huck is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 02 Jul 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,682
Huck 

Ah,
I seem to have misunderstood your argument.
We have a remake of the Petit Oracle here, I don't know to which degree it's identical.

http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks05/d02462/d02462.htm

Easier to view at
http:/trionfi.com/f
between the decks with 42 cards

DDD p. 143-144 gives some information and says "Paris 1807, by Gueffier". But they note an earlier version with 36 cards by Madame Finet.

http://www.giochidelloca.it/storia/plock.pdf
... describes such a deck from Madame Finet (search "finet" in the pdf-search) ... a longer description, no pictures.

************

Counting the single figures and the double-sided figures, we have 10 single and 32 double-sided pictures in the Le Petit Oracle of Dames, 1807 (42 cards)

Single Figures: 1-3-4-5-7-9-17-18-19-20
Double-Sided: all others
So totally 10 + 2x32 = 74 pictures in this deck at 42 cards.

In the description of the Madame Finet deck (in the PDF) it's said:

Quote:
Divinatory card game with standard piquet pack and four extra cards derived
from the Tarot of Etteilla (Jean-Baptiste Alliette). The sheet is divided into
36 rectangles arranged in rows with smaller reserves for the suits on the
right-hand side. At lower right, there is a blank reserve for the shop name to
be written in. The image is etched and hand-coloured, the text is engraved.
So this might mean, that the Madame Finet deck had four single figures and 32 double-sided cards, totally 68 pictures, which possibly all reappeared in the Petit Oracle 1807 ... but that's only suspicion.
Top   #124
kwaw's Avatar
kwaw  kwaw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
Posts: 5,400
kwaw 

The booklet, which says '72 colored figures' forming a complete game of 52 cards (the 52 cards of ordinary deck is distributed over the 42 actual (singe and double ended cards) is here:

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt...tteilla.langEN

Quote:
Originally Posted by huck
We have a remake of the Petit Oracle here, I don't know to which degree it's identical.

http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks05/d02462/d02462.htm

Easier to view at
http:/trionfi.com/f
between the decks with 42 cards
Yes, they seem to match the descriptions of the booklet very well.

Not sure about its relationship with the Finet (Nouvelle Eteila, ou le petit Nécromancien, Le petit oracle des dames), it is described as a piquet pack, this one contains all 52.

Re: single figures and double, I am not sure that 23 is meant to be viewed as a double figure. Although the image appears to have two parts, the bottom part is not reversed as it is in the double cards - the lwb does not describe it in terms of two tableaux either:

quote:

23. Love, desire
Under the planet venus

Love follows shooting an arrow and has a blindfold over his eyes, but it is a gauze so slight, that the malignant child sees everything perfectly. His garland of flowers serves to hide the features it wishes to arouse. The allegory it holds is Egyptian, and denotes love, or rather desire. There is a kind of glass vase, from the narrow bottleneck of which there escapes a pure flame, distilling incense sacred to Venus. The two snakes that cross it mark the choice and prudence that we should bring in the formation of an alliance. The two cups denote both spouses, one is the father, heralded by the plants it is placed above, the other sterile, that rests on a bare rock. The ace of spades mean love, Venus, enjoyment.
end quote

So we have 11 upright cards, and 31 double; so we have 31x2+11 = 73 ; still one more than the '72 colored figures' mentioned in the booklet. . .
Top   #125
Huck  Huck is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 02 Jul 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,682
Huck 

Ah, I see a further detail ... 1807 version:

cards 1-11 have 1 normal card added in the design (11 cards - 1 cards)

cards 12 and card 22 have no card added in the design (2 cards - 0 card)

cards 13-20 have also one normal card added (8 cards - 1 card)

card 21 (Fool/Magician) has two cards added - first of the cards with 2 (1 card - 2 cards)

card 24-25 and cards 36-42 have ALSO two cards added in the design (9 cards - 2 cards)

cards 23 and cards 26-35 have ALSO one card added in the design (11 cards - 1 card)

********

Summary:
makes 0+30+20 = 50 cards ????
... 2 cards are missing to a complete 52 cards deck

Ah ... miscounted. Cards 33 and 15 have also 2 cards, so it are 52 cards

So 12 cards with double cards = 24
28 cards with single card = 28
2 with no card = 0
-------------------
24 + 28 + 0 = 52

Some cards are unusual by this system

12 Fortuna - no card
22 Consultante - no card
-------------------------





Understandable choice.

-------------------------

Then we have the Nr. 35 as the highest card of the cards with only one card in the design. All cards above (36-42) have two cards in the design.

"42 cards" is a Minchiate form (in the Poilly cards). In the usual Minchiate card 35 has also the rank of "highest card" of a specific group (cards 16-35).

7 cards with 2 cards in the design are in heaven (36-42), 5 others have dropped from heaven:











Why just these?
Top   #126
kwaw's Avatar
kwaw  kwaw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
Posts: 5,400
kwaw 

Cross-posted while I was editing previous post - still trying to work out too the reference to '72 colored figures . . .

With all 52 cards of an ordinary deck, it is not a piquet based pack of course (as the Finet is described).
Top   #127
Huck  Huck is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 02 Jul 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,682
Huck 

5 cards from 21-25 have special importance











between them 3, which "dropped from heaven", and as a 4th the Consultante, a natural "very important figure in a reading". The 5th in the row is then love, not really surprising.

So we have the 5-elements group ...

21. Fool or Magician ... in this man really to use?

22. Consultante herself

23. Factor Love

24. Hymen means wedding ... or the man departs

25. Children ... and the man sits at the table and smokes his pipe; at least he has stayed.

************

Stay two of the cards, which "dropped from heaven", not explained:





15: The fight of life ... the above figure looks female

33: the Hercules scene ... there are two women. This likely will not endure all the time / one woman gets a letter

Somehow this game "5 dropped from heaven" looks like 5 planets and from this Fortune might be considered as "Sun" and the Consultante as the "Moon".

15, Bellona, might be Mars
23, Love, might be Venus ... but this doesn't belong to the "dropped of heaven group".

So I don't know for the moment ...
Top   #128
Huck  Huck is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 02 Jul 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,682
Huck 



Well ... the 72 (= soixante-douze) and 52 (= cinquante deux) likely explain, that 52 playing card symbols were carried to 40 cards of the 42-cards-system with 72 pictures ... as it seems, the Fortuna and the Consultante stay "not counted", otherwise he should have written "74" instead of "72"

But I see, that Stephen answered a post ...
Top   #129
kwaw's Avatar
kwaw  kwaw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
Posts: 5,400
kwaw 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huck View Post


Well ... the 72 (= soixante-douze) and 52 (= cinquante deux) likely explain, that 52 playing card symbols were carried to 40 cards of the 42-cards-system with 72 pictures ... as it seems, the Fortuna and the Consultante stay "not counted", otherwise he should have written "74" instead of "72"

But I see, that Stephen answered a post ...
But it is counting those two as 'double' (having two tableaux) that we arrive at 74, so if we deduct them we deduct 4, not 2, = 70. Also as I noted above, I am not sure No. 23 is to be counted among the double tableaux cards (what seem 'two parts' of that card are both upright and described as one tableau) - so there are 11 upright and 31 doubles = 73 . . . perhaps because the consultant (an additional card in Etteilla) is taken as significator and place at the beginning or centre of the spread and is not randomly drawn it is not counted, that would give us 72?

Thereagain - Card No.2 - both tableaux are unusual in that both tableaux are upright, but they are clearly described as two tableaux in the lwb's description - plus the card is symmetrically split along the middle, as are the other double cards, whereas the split in 23 is not across the middle. . .

Thereagain - though cards 2 and 23 have 'two parts' they are both upright, so if we count upright cards and those with upright and inverse tableaux, then we have 12 upright and 30 reversible = 30x2+12 = 72.
Top   #130
Elsewhere on the Tarot Forum
Popular Tarot Boards
· Using Tarot Cards
· Talking Tarot
· Tarot Spreads
· Tarot Decks
· Rider-Waite-Smith

Special Interest Boards
· Astrology
· Crystals & Herbs
· Divination
· Lenormand
· Spirituality

Popular Tarot Threads
· Pet Peeves
· Timing of cards
· Interesting tarot pairs
· The Moon as how someone feels
· The World as feelings

More Tarot Threads
· Cards for certain events
· Tarot meanings for health
· List of Tarot Questions
· Can Tarot be Dangerous?
· List of Tarot Myths



Elsewhere on Aeclectic Tarot
· Tarot Cards & Reviews
· Free Tarot Readings
· Tarot eBooks
· Tarot Card Meanings

Copyright © 1996 - 2021 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us. About us.