Why did Eliphas Lévi link Le Mat with Shin?


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Huck  Huck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw View Post
The British Museum has two Etteilla piquet packs published by Mme. Gueffier & Croisey:

Mme Gueffier (publisher/printer; French; Female; 1806; fl.)

Address

Rue Galande No. 61, Paris

Bibliography

Schreiber French 56

Biography

Playing-card maker; bookbinder

Also Known As

Gueffier

Croisey (printmaker; French; Male; 1788; fl.)

Address

Rue Neuve St Martin, la Première Porte-Cochère à droite par la Rue St Martin, Paris (1788) Rue de la Huchette, No. 19, Paris (1806)

Bibliography

Schreiber French 56

Biography

Engraver and mapmaker, active in Paris c. 1788. His trade card (Banks 133.55) notes that his wife engraved lettering and music. Presumably identical with the playing-card maker at rue de la Huchette in 1806.

Several sites name Alliette as the author, e.g.m BnF and here:

http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=...effier&f=false

But published by Peytieux. It is undated, but listed between books publish in 1782 and 1785.
. Guiffier jeune is publishing Etteilla as early as the 1770's and Guiffier are still publishing him in the 19th century - Mme. Guiffier is perhaps the widow of Guiffier the Younger (jeune?)
Do you have the link to the British library decks?

I would say, that "Gueffier jeune" is a publishing house family. If the Veuve Gueffier made the deck herself, why didn't she sell it through the own business in 1797? I think, they got the rights around 1800.
Well, might be, that the real Gueffier jeune ied and that the husband of the widow or somebody else took the name of the production house. Such things happened rather often.

On the other side the game has some feminine character, a female designer would have some logic.

"Etteilla" as producer name was used to sell more decks ... with some greater security.

Okay, I found the decks. Just only descriptions. Perhaps identical to Picture No. 5 in DDD. (Deck from 1791)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huck View Post
I would say, that "Gueffier jeune" is a publishing house family. If the Veuve Gueffier made the deck herself, why didn't she sell it through the own business in 1797? I think, they got the rights around 1800.
Per my post above (145), Gueffier, bookseller (Libraire), is listed with the deck in 1797:

Journal typographique et bibliographique (1797) p.334

Gueffier Jeune is also called a bookseller (Libraire) in 1787.

According to the British Library note, Mme. Gueffier was also known simply as Gueffier.

Gueffier Jeune, Mme. Gueffier, Gueffier, the Widow Gueffier are most likely all related to the same (Amsterdam/Paris) bookseller/publishing house, Gueffier, Mme. Gueffier and the widow Gueffier possibly the same person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw View Post

Several sites name Alliette as the author, e.g.m BnF and here:

http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=...effier&f=false

But published/sold by Peytieux.
The link is too La France Litteraire, which is mentioned in DDD: "Some years later, the same titles came into the hands of an obscure Parisian bookseller named Peytieux. This information is given in Joseph- Marie Querard's authoritative La France litteraire, where an entry is devoted to Alliette. . ."
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Do a search on Gueffier Imprimeur and you'll find all kinds of family history spanning more than a hundred years.

I had copied out several things but before I could 'submit reply' they all disappeared. It's just not my day.
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Some of the early posts on this thread connected shin = tooth with the teeth of the dog or crocodile that often appears in The Fool. My instinctive thought was different: to connect shin with a baby developing teeth. The Fool is, in some ways, the baby of the tarot. A baby is sometimes included in the design of the card (the Tarot of the Old Path, for example). While (obviously) Eliphas Levi can't have seen modern packs with this feature (I think the Tarot of the Old Path dates to around 1990) the idea such depictions embody may have occurred to him. It would certainly not seem odd to link The Fool with problems we commonly term "teething troubles".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw View Post
Per my post above (145), Gueffier, bookseller (Libraire), is listed with the deck in 1797:

Journal typographique et bibliographique (1797) p.334
Alright, I got it.

But we have a calendar problem. ... :-)
"My" 1797 document is in the same book. Your 1797 document is in "Messidor" (something like June or July and that's the 10th month in the Revolution calendar, mine is in "Nivose"and that's the 4th month December/January. So my date is a half year before your document.
Well, the book is just a collection of advertising papers from one year, I think from September 1796 - September 1797, "Cinquieme Annee".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_Calendar

http://www.culture.fr/recherche/?typ...te#categorie_2

It means, that in the earlier document the author is anonymous and has only an address. His distributor seems to be Deroy. A half year later the distributor is Gueffier, no note about the author.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw View Post
The link is too La France Litteraire, which is mentioned in DDD: "Some years later, the same titles came into the hands of an obscure Parisian bookseller named Peytieux. This information is given in Joseph- Marie Querard's authoritative La France litteraire, where an entry is devoted to Alliette. . ."
It seems Peytieux bought the rights from Gueffier jeune in 1823:

Mutations de fonds
M. Peytieux, libraire, passage du Caire, n 121, vient d'acquerir de M. Geuffier jeune le fonds et la propriete des deux ouvrages suivans livre:

Le Petit Oracle des dames . . .
Le Veritable Etteilla . . .

Bibliography of France [formerly of the French Empire] or, Journal of General Printing and bookstore, 1923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teheuti View Post
Do a search on Gueffier Imprimeur and you'll find all kinds of family history spanning more than a hundred years.
I've seen it, a very active family. Likely not very fixed on Etteilla or cards, it's just one business beside other operations.
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An information of greater relevance in the theme "Petit Oracle" was added by Mari (Cerulian) at the deck thread ...
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=171379
post #5
.... She gave a link to a library page:
http://www-bsg.univ-paris1.fr/la_res...eu/horsjeu.htm
... which contains a short description of the deck "Petit Oracle", which is there believed to be the deck of 1807. BUT ... it is not the deck, that we were discussing about.

I followed the contradiction and found, that DDD in 1996 possibly also didn't speak of the deck, which we discussed, but from this other deck, in which Jupiter has Nr. 2. (not 18, as in our deck) and likely a lot of other things are also different.
Details of my considerations are given after Mari's post, but it's clear, that there are two different versions.
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A further important contribution was given by Coredil in ...
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=122602&page=22
.. in post #219

According this our earlier noted calendar problem likely solves in the manner, that our recently assumed dating "1797" for Le Petit Oracle des Dames is (very likely) wrong, and that the both notes actually refer to 1802.

Details at the above given place ... and in the following post

From this evolves, that ...





... seems to be the first date of the Petit Oracle des Dames (at least for the moment), but this is, as I understand it, only a reference to another (larger) text, which I couldn't detect till now, cause I've difficulties to interpret the "115".
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