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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalliope View Post
Thanks for these -- especially the article about the Trigon/Triplicities. I hadn't paid much attention to them before.

.....The part about empty houses being able to accept transits by sign is very unusual! That's something fun I look forward to examining with my own chart.

.......I know, easy, right? But at the 42...
Thanks for the detailed feedback which I found most interesting. I actually enjoyed doing this reading because it made me think hard about what Astrology could do.

On the empty houses, I think there's still a leftover' of this in those horoscope columns in newspapers and magazines, when it says something like...'Venus is transiting your fifth house so now is the time for romance'. The author can have no knowledge of whether there's any planets there are not but still sees it as an important event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalliope

Wow, your summary of this is very interesting! I haven't read his paper yet, but I downloaded it, and the idea of the divide at the horizon between the Earth and the Mind/Spirit is pretty neat.
It's towards the end, indeed I think it's the last thing he looks at but I found it the most interesting part of the paper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalliope

I find your description of the square between the Lots to be fascinating. I agree that it seems to summarize my trouble with these issues very accurately. So my life tends to unfold (LoF) in ways that cause obstacles (square and in wrong hemispheres) for what my mind or spirit would like to express (LoS). Huh!

Well, I'm heartened that Spirit dominates Fortune, and that the rulers appear to be in a position to work for me. Especially considering some of the negatives outlined later on. I just need to try to get my Mercury working for me through to completion so that I can actually accomplish these things and not just think about them a lot...
I think it's more that you can't see things as clearly as you want to. There's an issue here between what your soul wants and what the world tries to impose on you...you touch on it again several times in this post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalliope
I have to admit, direct charity work isn't something I've seriously considered before, but I have always been drawn to the "helping professions." My degree is in psychology, and I'm considering going back to school for my masters in counseling. I think the same desire to help and counsel (others, in addition to myself) drives much of my interest in astrology and related esoteric subjects. I often fantasize about being a hybrid astrologer/counselor (secretly, though, since I'm married to a research scientist and live a land filled with hard-nosed academics in general!) I'm also very interested in holistic health/nutrition counseling, and get passionate about the educational system, too. I suppose these areas could be considered "good works."

The administrative work I've done has mostly been in higher education settings (universities), but perhaps I should think about expanding my options to other organizations: community outreach and counseling, educational reform, other charitable organizations, etc. This is definitely something to think on and brainstorm about.
I was throwing idea out in that section, but I think you have a need to help and do good works, because that will 'feed your soul'. How you do it is open to you. Charities and VA's are but a couple of possibilities. The counselling would also be a good expression of this principle.

I mentioned the administrative side because the chart shows you clearly have administrative skills, so you could combine them with that need to 'help'. It's not necessary but it broadens the base of what you could do to 'feed your soul'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalliope

Which equation are you using for the Lot of Eros? I think my copy of Morinus has that file you gave us a while back with a few handfuls of defined Lots. That one shows my Lot of Eros at 28Aqu31, House 4 (AC+VE-R2). Do you have an updated Lots file with those you're currently using?
One of the downsides of Hellenistic Astrology is that there are a multitude of Lots and often the same Lot has several variants. I took my original set of Lots from Joseph Crane's book, 'Astrological Roots: The Hellenistic Legacy'. In that book he also mentioned alternative calculations for Eros and Necessity.

There are four versions listed, three of them base Eros on the Lots of Fortune and Spirit. Valens and Paulus give day/night versions but the opposite way round. Firmicus uses a day version which reverses at night.

The version I used was:

ASC + Spirit - Fortune

Which is the D/N version for Valens and the Nocturnal Version for Firmicus. For the Paulus version simply swap Spirit and Fortune.

Of these, Valens is the older one, though it's possible that Firmicus used an earlier source than Valens.

It's easy to add this (these?) to your list of Lots in Morinus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalliope
But basically, you're saying here that hopes and true friends won't be of much help through the house of Good Spirit, and the house of Action (MC) doesn't have direct support either, since I don't have any placements in those areas. Maybe Eros in the 10th points to some helpful relationships, but through Venus points back to the Lot of Spirit in the 5th, and therefore Good Works again.
I think I'm saying that there's no distractions in seeing that you need to help through good works. That is the direction your actions should take you (and hence your career). That there are no planets in the elventh does not mean that 'trusted friends' don't exist or won't help, but that they won't get in the way. Spirit and Action seem to hang together.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalliope
Interestingly, I had lots of fears, phobias, and stress about my recent travel abroad! I'm glad that the Moon appears to have some control over Saturn here. Would the Moon's placement in the 6th house of Health/Illness have any relevance here? As I mentioned above, I'm very interested in health and wellness, am concerned about avoiding poor health, and actually spend a lot of my spare time reading in that area. Especially how our choices surrounding food and habits can affect our health, and how we can exert more control over our health than conventional medicine suggests, especially over time. I'm always experimenting with our diet to find our optimum feelings of wellness (from veganism to primal to "traditional foods" over the years.) I've also come to realize that I'm secretly more anxious than I ever thought, and that regular exercise, mindfulness, and yoga are really helpful. Perhaps I've always subconsciously known that a lot of my attention needs to go here in order to avoid problems down the road.
Yes the Moon's place in the sixth is relevant, but I think the key is to do what you are actually doing - take a conscious interest in your health and lifestyle. That will ground you for your expression of your soul.


Quote:
Well, I hope that your prognosis for successfully "making a difference" is correct! It reinforces my general interest areas, and you've also given me some additional avenues to explore. I realize these were big questions, but you tackled them well, thank you!
I think it's what you need to do. It doesn't have to be a mega activity but it does need to be something that you find spiritually rewarding. Something that allows you to at least live with those academics, yet feel that you are not oppressed by science. I hope you are able to do that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalliope

I hope your wife's relative is doing better, and also that you don't feel any pressure from us. Take your time. The thread (and all of us) will still be here later!
She seemed to be doing well, though we have not visited recently as my wife has a nasty cold and doesn't want to spread germs throughout the hospital
Top   #161
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Next Stages


For:

Ana's Song,
Kalliope
Spiraling

I've now reached Stage 4, so I'd like an area of life (which may or may not be the one you chose for Stage 3) to have a look at what has happened in the past and what should happen in the near future.

Can you follow Ronia's example and perhaps give me a connected event(s) in the past in order to calibrate for having a stab at the future.

For Jessyboo92 I'm at Stage 3 so an area of life you want me to look at would be the next step.

I can see other methods that I'm coming across which might be useful for everybody, so the end of Stage 4 is not necessarily the end of the thread.
Top   #162
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I've been playing with Aphesis these days and, frankly, I'm not sure this method is working very well. I tried the dates of almost all important events in my life and while for the marriage there are obviously references, for the other events I couldn't find such. Nor were there complimenting transits... Hm. I also tried the Lot of Travel and releasing from it but since it's also in Sagittarius, it's tricky as the Lot of Marriage is there as well. The dates of my big moves to another geographical location seem to be just regular periods, nothing special... However, with the Lot of Fortune it works better. May be I should stick to it. I also noticed that on March22/23 there will be a Loose of Bond (with two Lots it's around these dates), so I'll keep an eye on this time and report if anything happens.

The problem I see with predicting relationship/romance is that many of the Lots that could relate to either of those are in the same signs as other lots. Such as Libra na dAries, for example. If I release from gemini, I actually found some clues as last August there were periods when the signs complement what happened. But I would see the nature of the event like more Venus/Mars kind although Jupiter could fit too to a certain extent.

I'm also trying to "see" in the release two major events that I'm "planning" (hoping for) this year. One is another major move, it should happen in the beginning of July, it should be a 9th house thing. I can certainly change the time of moving if I see an indication for a better time but I don't see anything major. Second is of romantic nature (a meeting) and should happen in September, after the 5th, before the 15th... And I'm greatly puzzled which Lot to take and how to "see" it.

Oops, sorry. I tried a release from Sagittarius (Lot of Travel) and I see there will be a c hange on the 2nd of July - Aquarius L3 is replaced by Pisces L3 while Aries L4 is replaced by Pisces L4. I'm not sure Pisces is a good sign for travelling though... It does rule 3rd house but such a move is definitely a 9th house thing. However, at the time Jupiter will be in exact conjunction with natal Mars thus trining the Sun but since in whole signs the Sun is in the 11th... If it was Placidus it would be good as Jupiter would trine the Sun in the 9th... Ugh. It's interesting that even if I release from Fortune, it's going to be a Virgo L3 (9th house) and Gemini L4 (Mercury rules again). But Mercury is retrograde by transit.

With romance I'm still nowhere though. I tried the Gemini Venus+Jupiter Lot for past events. It seems to fit for some of them. For example, for last August there was a Loose of Bond around the time when I sent my letter - it was Cancer L1, Gemini L2, and on the 31 of August L3 switched from Taurus to Sagittarius, accidentally (or not) Venus and Jupiter rulers (transiting Jupiter was trining natal Mercury and transiting Venus was still sloce to the Dsc applying for a conjunction with natal Moon). On the exact date L4 was capricorn. I also notice that Saturn definitely plays a role in my romantic life. Either Capricorn or Aquarius are usually in the game. Using this same Lot, I'm now in Cancer L1, Capricorn L2, Aquarius L3 and there will be a Loose of Bond on 3 of April when L3 will become Pisces and Aries L4 will be replaced by Pisces again. However, at this time Jupiter will only be applying for a trine with Pars Fortunae, a degree from it. 3 degrees from another trine to natal Mercury. Transiting Mars will be applying for a conjunction with natal Jupiter, Venus to follow but I'm not sure if these will be significant.

For the September meeting I hope for, if I release from Lot of Marriage in sagittarius, there is a Loose of Bond on the 7th of september and L3/L4 becomes Taurus, ruler Venus. Transiting Venus, however, will be 2 degrees from a square to natal Moon. Sun is to conjunct natal Venus (this time of the year again!). What's amusing is that Jupiter is trining the MC and this, if it happens, will indeed be an achievement for me!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia View Post
I've been playing with Aphesis these days and, frankly, I'm not sure this method is working very well. I tried the dates of almost all important events in my life and while for the marriage there are obviously references, for the other events I couldn't find such. Nor were there complimenting transits... Hm. I also tried the Lot of Travel and releasing from it but since it's also in Sagittarius, it's tricky as the Lot of Marriage is there as well. The dates of my big moves to another geographical location seem to be just regular periods, nothing special... However, with the Lot of Fortune it works better. May be I should stick to it. I also noticed that on March22/23 there will be a Loose of Bond (with two Lots it's around these dates), so I'll keep an eye on this time and report if anything happens.

The problem I see with predicting relationship/romance is that many of the Lots that could relate to either of those are in the same signs as other lots. Such as Libra na dAries, for example. If I release from gemini, I actually found some clues as last August there were periods when the signs complement what happened. But I would see the nature of the event like more Venus/Mars kind although Jupiter could fit too to a certain extent.
For Western practioners, this is a fairly new method - in the sense that it wan't used in Medieval and later Astrology and the only mention we have of it, is in Valens. It's only in the last 7 or 8 years that people have been trying it, as translations have become available.

Even then most of the focus has been on Releasing from Spirit, for career issues. I tried the Releasing from the Lot of Marrage for someone else before you and that also worked accurately for their marriage. I mentioned it to Chris Brennan, who hadn't tried it, He had tried relationships using the Lof of Eros.

My feeling is that there are two distinct issues here. Firstly which Lot (if any) should be chosen - which in turn means tht you have to have some confidence that the Lot describes what you want it to describe. Secondly, whether the technique of releasing is one that works consistently for all areas of life.

At the moment I haven't explored it enough to be sure one way or the other. My feelings though are that using too many Lots or using all possible variants is unlikely to be a satisfactory method, and if that turns out to be the case then I'll drop it entirely.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia

I'm also trying to "see" in the release two major events that I'm "planning" (hoping for) this year. One is another major move, it should happen in the beginning of July, it should be a 9th house thing. I can certainly change the time of moving if I see an indication for a better time but I don't see anything major. Second is of romantic nature (a meeting) and should happen in September, after the 5th, before the 15th... And I'm greatly puzzled which Lot to take and how to "see" it.

Oops, sorry. I tried a release from Sagittarius (Lot of Travel) and I see there will be a change on the 2nd of July - Aquarius L3 is replaced by Pisces L3 while Aries L4 is replaced by Pisces L4. I'm not sure Pisces is a good sign for travelling though... It does rule 3rd house but such a move is definitely a 9th house thing. However, at the time Jupiter will be in exact conjunction with natal Mars thus trining the Sun but since in whole signs the Sun is in the 11th... If it was Placidus it would be good as Jupiter would trine the Sun in the 9th... Ugh. It's interesting that even if I release from Fortune, it's going to be a Virgo L3 (9th house) and Gemini L4 (Mercury rules again). But Mercury is retrograde by transit.
You're taking a modern 9th House meaning there, involving overseas travel or major moves. The distinction looks to be much less clear cut in Hellenistic times, For example Rhetorius describes the third as It signifies the topic of foreign (things) that of dreams amd religious observances and banking and friends and brothers and the queen' and the ninth as 'concerning the gods and kings and foreigners and dreams and religious observance' but does add 'The good (stars) being in this house make good fortune in foreign places....

There's clear overlap between the two places, but no mention of overseas or long distance travel, being a differentiating factor, as it certainly was by medieval times.

Ond differentiating factor might be Chris Brennan's division between the world of Fortune and the world of Spirit. Notice that the third house definition includes 'foreign things', whereas the ninth house definition talks of 'foreigners' . His difference is that the 'subterranean houses relate to what happens to your body, whereas the heavenly houses relate to what happens to your mind and soul. However that's a new theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia

With romance I'm still nowhere though. I tried the Gemini Venus+Jupiter Lot for past events. It seems to fit for some of them. For example, for last August there was a Loose of Bond around the time when I sent my letter - it was Cancer L1, Gemini L2, and on the 31 of August L3 switched from Taurus to Sagittarius, accidentally (or not) Venus and Jupiter rulers (transiting Jupiter was trining natal Mercury and transiting Venus was still sloce to the Dsc applying for a conjunction with natal Moon). On the exact date L4 was capricorn. I also notice that Saturn definitely plays a role in my romantic life. Either Capricorn or Aquarius are usually in the game. Using this same Lot, I'm now in Cancer L1, Capricorn L2, Aquarius L3 and there will be a Loose of Bond on 3 of April when L3 will become Pisces and Aries L4 will be replaced by Pisces again. However, at this time Jupiter will only be applying for a trine with Pars Fortunae, a degree from it. 3 degrees from another trine to natal Mercury. Transiting Mars will be applying for a conjunction with natal Jupiter, Venus to follow but I'm not sure if these will be significant.

For the September meeting I hope for, if I release from Lot of Marriage in sagittarius, there is a Loose of Bond on the 7th of september and L3/L4 becomes Taurus, ruler Venus. Transiting Venus, however, will be 2 degrees from a square to natal Moon. Sun is to conjunct natal Venus (this time of the year again!). What's amusing is that Jupiter is trining the MC and this, if it happens, will indeed be an achievement for me!
By profection, most of next September is a Sagittaius month (begins 26 August) and indeed Jupiter is transiting Cancer. The Lord of the Year, Saturn, is trining from Scorpio having just transited your natal Sun. The only drawback is that transiting Mars has just transited your natal Moon.

Incidentally, whilst the Hellenistic Astrologers kept to transits, some of the modern practiioners have also looked at secondary directions in conjunction with profections.

I've only scratched the surface in my own reading when it comes ot some of the wealth of techniques that were used.
Top   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
For Western practioners, this is a fairly new method - in the sense that it wan't used in Medieval and later Astrology and the only mention we have of it, is in Valens. It's only in the last 7 or 8 years that people have been trying it, as translations have become available.

Even then most of the focus has been on Releasing from Spirit, for career issues. I tried the Releasing from the Lot of Marrage for someone else before you and that also worked accurately for their marriage. I mentioned it to Chris Brennan, who hadn't tried it, He had tried relationships using the Lof of Eros.
How did it work for him? I'm a bit reluctant to use a LOt which includes Saturn when I'm actually thinking of a romantic connection and not at all about marriage, at least at this point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
My feeling is that there are two distinct issues here. Firstly which Lot (if any) should be chosen - which in turn means tht you have to have some confidence that the Lot describes what you want it to describe. Secondly, whether the technique of releasing is one that works consistently for all areas of life.

At the moment I haven't explored it enough to be sure one way or the other. My feelings though are that using too many Lots or using all possible variants is unlikely to be a satisfactory method, and if that turns out to be the case then I'll drop it entirely.
I'm not sure either. I haven't checked all possibilities yet and haven't checked if at all times there were supporting transits or not though, so there is still chance it works but I haven't pinpointed the correct Lot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
You're taking a modern 9th House meaning there, involving overseas travel or major moves. The distinction looks to be much less clear cut in Hellenistic times, For example Rhetorius describes the third as It signifies the topic of foreign (things) that of dreams amd religious observances and banking and friends and brothers and the queen' and the ninth as 'concerning the gods and kings and foreigners and dreams and religious observance' but does add 'The good (stars) being in this house make good fortune in foreign places....

There's clear overlap between the two places, but no mention of overseas or long distance travel, being a differentiating factor, as it certainly was by medieval times.
Oh yes, I forgot about that. So Jupiter should be a good reference for travel being the ruler of Pisces. On the other hand, I was wondering if I shouldn't look for transits of the 4th house ruler too as this is a major home/family move?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Ond differentiating factor might be Chris Brennan's division between the world of Fortune and the world of Spirit. Notice that the third house definition includes 'foreign things', whereas the ninth house definition talks of 'foreigners' . His difference is that the 'subterranean houses relate to what happens to your body, whereas the heavenly houses relate to what happens to your mind and soul. However that's a new theory.
That's a bit tricky because when we make a major decisions it doesn't happen only to our body, it's not like jogging. It's born in our mind and then performed physically, IMHO.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
By profection, most of next September is a Sagittaius month (begins 26 August) and indeed Jupiter is transiting Cancer. The Lord of the Year, Saturn, is trining from Scorpio having just transited your natal Sun. The only drawback is that transiting Mars has just transited your natal Moon.
I don't know about profections, thank you for the information. So, this should be good for relationships? As about Mars, I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see if he can work as a trigger instead of being a fly in the soup.

What month is July in profections when I'm planning to move again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Incidentally, whilst the Hellenistic Astrologers kept to transits, some of the modern practiioners have also looked at secondary directions in conjunction with profections.

I've only scratched the surface in my own reading when it comes ot some of the wealth of techniques that were used.
I know all my progressions and directions by heart already. LOL There are some major configurations there but some of them include outer planets and although we don't use them here, I certainly felt them and very strongly.

P.S. Should I take progressions into consideration? This summer I'll have an exact trine between progressive Mars (in Gemini) and progressive Venus (in Libra) accompanied by a sextile from progressive Moon (in Saggittarius) to progressive Venus (opposition to progressive Mars respectively from Saggittarius to Gemini) + trine between Mercury (in Saggittarius) and Jupiter (in Aries) which happen to be rulers of 7 and 1 progressive (progressive Asc is Pisces)?
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The past few years have consisted of escapism in myriad of forms, which I suspect is an issue of both negative Neptune and Saturn expression combined (considering my personal recurring neptunian Hanged Man and Saturn-related The Devil and The World RX pulls), or they both signify the pivots in this vicious cycle I can't seem to handle. I'm wondering if you can read this tendency for escapism in my chart, and what is something I could aspire to, at least to get me out of this mess?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia View Post
How did it work for him? I'm a bit reluctant to use a LOt which includes Saturn when I'm actually thinking of a romantic connection and not at all about marriage, at least at this point...
I'm not sure what success he's had. He said that he'd used the Lot to focus on the love life as a whole. but it was an aside in a post on another matter. The Lot of Eros, which he used is probably one of the variants on Ascendant, Spirit and Fortune, for example Valen's version of Ascendant +Spirit - Fortune (Valens used the same formula for both day and night births).

Firmicus used Ascendant + Fortune - Spirit but revesed it for night births and Paulus used Ascendant + Fortune - Spirit for both day and night births,

There's approximately 200 years between Valens and Firmicus and another 200 between Firmicus and Paulus, so the later lots might be due to changing practices over 400 years or even down to transcription errors. However none of these uses Saturn. So you could try one of them.

Delphic Oracle appears to use the Valens formula, so my guess would be that was the one Chris Brennan used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia
Oh yes, I forgot about that. So Jupiter should be a good reference for travel being the ruler of Pisces. On the other hand, I was wondering if I shouldn't look for transits of the 4th house ruler too as this is a major home/family move?
Well if you profect from Mars, ruler of your fourth place of Aries, then you will move into an Aries month on 26 June, and most of July will therefore be a fourth place month. So yes, that does seem to show that your home is the key issue. Mars is transiting your sixth (Gemini) at the start of the profected month but then moves into Cancer and you have a Mars Return on 15th July. So your home is particularly emphasised over those few weeks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia
That's a bit tricky because when we make a major decisions it doesn't happen only to our body, it's not like jogging. It's born in our mind and then performed physically, IMHO.
Yes but firstly you are planning to relocate your body \it's a physical move the new location may or may not affect your opportunities to improve the situation and Fortune also suggests opportunities and Threats from the outside world - so there may be an opportunity opening up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia

P.S. Should I take progressions into consideration? This summer I'll have an exact trine between progressive Mars (in Gemini) and progressive Venus (in Libra) accompanied by a sextile from progressive Moon (in Saggittarius) to progressive Venus (opposition to progressive Mars respectively from Saggittarius to Gemini) + trine between Mercury (in Saggittarius) and Jupiter (in Aries) which happen to be rulers of 7 and 1 progressive (progressive Asc is Pisces)?
Well in a strict Hellenisitc context, no, because progressions were not used by them, being invented about 1,000 years later. However, it seems that a number of modern writers have indeed tried to combine with progressions. They have also tried using the outers as well, or at least I assume they have, as Delphic Oracle allows the use of the outers at all stages, and even asteroids.

I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that but as I'm seeking to understand the Hellenistic system, I'm not trying those out.
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Minderwiz, how do we know if it's an opportunity or a threat when we release from Fortune? I don't want to make it worse, it's already bad enough. In fact the last month and this one are just... well... testing, to put it lightly.
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Originally Posted by Ronia View Post
Minderwiz, how do we know if it's an opportunity or a threat when we release from Fortune? I don't want to make it worse, it's already bad enough. In fact the last month and this one are just... well... testing, to put it lightly.
It's simply a matter of checking the aspects from transiting planets at the time of the event/proposed event. Squares and Oppositions from Mars and Saturn would suggest threats (unless they are well placed or are the key significator you're checking). Trines and sextiles from Venus and Jupiter suggest opportunities.

In reality you might get a mixture of these, or trines/sextiles from Mars and Saturn and opposition/squares from Venus and Jupiter - which comes down to a risk of some sort, how risky depending on your over feeling from checking the aspects.

If you have geared up to a major event and everything is planned, it would have to be a very awful chart to make you change your mind.

As releasing periods can cover several days, you can check which day looks best for action.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiraling View Post
The past few years have consisted of escapism in myriad of forms, which I suspect is an issue of both negative Neptune and Saturn expression combined (considering my personal recurring neptunian Hanged Man and Saturn-related The Devil and The World RX pulls), or they both signify the pivots in this vicious cycle I can't seem to handle. I'm wondering if you can read this tendency for escapism in my chart, and what is something I could aspire to, at least to get me out of this mess?
I'll take a look. When did this period start? (as accurately as you can remember, month and year if possible but year will do)
Top   #170
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