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From Lucien of Samosata: Alexander the False Prophet.
Quote:
As you might have expected of two consummate rascals, greatly daring, fully prepared for mischief, who had put their heads together, they readily discerned that human life is swayed by two great tyrants, hope and fear, and that a man who could use both of these to advantage would speedily enrich himself. For they perceived that both to one who fears and to one who hopes, foreknowledge is very essential and very keenly coveted, and that long ago not only Delphi, but Delos and Clarus and Branchidae, had become rich and famous because, thanks to the tyrants just mentioned, hope and fear, men continually visited their sanctuaries and sought to learn the future in advance, and to that end sacrificed hecatombs and dedicated ingots of gold. By turning all this round and round in conference with one another and keeping it astir, they concocted the project of founding a prophetic shrine and oracle, hoping that if they should succeed in it, they would at once be rich and prosperous—which, in fact, befell them in greater measure than they at first expected, and turned out better than they hoped.
Love this ancient Guy!
~Rosanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosanne View Post
From Lucien of Samosata: Alexander the False Prophet.
The text is here ...
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/lu..._alexander.htm
and a wikipedia life description of Alexander of Abonoteichus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_of_Abonoteichus

It's interesting, that Lucian noted an Epicurean "Lepidus" as a foe of this Alexander ...

Quote:
In general, the war that he [Alexander] waged upon Epicurus was without truce or parley, naturally enough. Upon whom else would a quack who loved humbug and bitterly hated truth more fittingly make war than upon Epicurus, who discerned the nature of things and alone knew the truth in them? The followers of Plato and Chrysippus and Pythagoras were his friends, and there was profound peace with them; but “the impervious Epicurus” —for that is what he called him—was rightly his bitter enemy, since he considered all that sort of thing a laughing-matter and a joke. So Alexander hated Amastris most of all the cities in Pontus because he knew that the followers of Lepidus (23) and others like them were numerous in the city; and he would never deliver an oracle to an Amastrian.
[(23) An inscription from Amastris (C.I.G. 4149) honours "Tiberius Claudius Lepidus, Chief Priest of pontus and President of the Metropolis of Pontus" (i.e. Amastris). This can be no other than the Lepidus of Lucian. The priesthood was that of Augustus. Amastris is almost due N. of Angora, on the Black Sea, W. of Abonoteichus.]

Leon Battista Alberti took the pseudonym of "Lepidus" in his theater play of 1424 (Philodoxeus) and he gave the figure "Lepidus" further life in later writings ("Dinner Pieces").
http://books.google.de/books?id=vj6C...lberti&f=false

Otherwise it's said, that Guarino gave texts (around 1441) of Lucian to Alberti, which inspired Alberti to make his own versions.
http://books.google.de/books?id=sLXW...lucian&f=false.

Alberti (right in the spirit of Lucian) claimed in 1424, that the theater play had been really from an antique comedian named Lepidus (although he himself had written it). The play immediately became a great success. In 1435 he confessed the action in a letter to Leonello d'Este, with which Alberti introduced himself.
The court of Ferrara had been very much interested in theater plays in this time, and interest which returned with much more glamor with duke Ercole (1485) and thousands of spectators (praised as the prototype of modern theater; with strong participation of Niccolo of Correggio, who recently has been theme here; and with participation of Boiardo, who translated "Il Timone" from Lucian; the play was shown at the wedding of Alfonso d'Este and Anna Sforza in January 1491 ...
http://books.google.de/books/about/T...AJ&redir_esc=y
.... later followed by William Shakespeare with Timon of Athens ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timon_of_Athens
... )
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After re- reading a heap of Lucian works, which tangled me away from this thread.
I ask...
How 'Lucianic' is Tarot?
It seems to me quite largely.
The Bioardo Tarocchi poem with it's 4 stoic passion suits Love/Hope/Fear/Jealousy
is reflected in Isaballa's motto and the words of several Lucian of Samosata's witty dialogues. We have spoken of his 'Alexander The False Prophet', and in others there is the the theme of Love and Jealousy- like The Dialogues of the Hetaerae (or Courtesans) where
Parthenis for example says " All jealousy, my dear--love run wild. " There are others of course, that is one I remember.
I think I may always think of Card one(In the deck that looks like the Rosenthal Visconti-Sforza Taroochi cards Kaplan Vol 1 Page 99) in as Alexander, the impostor of Abonoteichus.
Because....paint his clothes purple and white and you have...
Of course It was Alexander who was sent in first; he now wore his hair long, had falling ringlets, dressed in a parti-coloured tunic of white and purple, with a white cloak over it, and carried a falchion like that of Perseus, from whom he claimed descent on his mother’s side. And although those miserable Paphlagonians knew that both his parents were obscure, humble folk, they believed the oracle when it said.....
Kaplan says it is suggestive of the Fool- neh, I say it is suggestive the Rascal Alexander.

e I have never found the 21 cards as a Christian Salvation sequence anyway; rather more a satire.
~Rosanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosanne View Post
After re- reading a heap of Lucian works, which tangled me away from this thread.
I ask...
How 'Lucianic' is Tarot?
It seems to me quite largely.
Agreed, there seems to be a connection .... But I wonder, why you overlooked it such a long time. Occasionally it was a topic, especially in connection to Alberti ... and his "Momus", a text written 1443-50 (so in early Trionfi deck time).
That's a firework of amusement.
http://books.google.de/books?id=2ZNc...gbs_navlinks_s
And Momus looked like the beggar of the Mantegna Tarocchi in some art.
And Momus became the Fool in the Minchiate Francesi.


http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/CadresFene...&M=chemindefer

Also there was the theme of Alberti's "Philodoxus" in 1424.
http://parnaseo.uv.es/celestinesca/N..._documento.pdf

Quote:
The Bioardo Tarocchi poem with it's 4 stoic passion suits Love/Hope/Fear/Jealousy
is reflected in Isaballa's motto and the words of several Lucian of Samosata's witty dialogues. We have spoken of his 'Alexander The False Prophet', and in others there is the the theme of Love and Jealousy- like The Dialogues of the Hetaerae (or Courtesans) where
Parthenis for example says " All jealousy, my dear--love run wild. " There are others of course, that is one I remember.
I think I may always think of Card one(In the deck that looks like the Rosenthal Visconti-Sforza Taroochi cards Kaplan Vol 1 Page 99) in as Alexander, the impostor of Abonoteichus.
Because....paint his clothes purple and white and you have...
Of course It was Alexander who was sent in first; he now wore his hair long, had falling ringlets, dressed in a parti-coloured tunic of white and purple, with a white cloak over it, and carried a falchion like that of Perseus, from whom he claimed descent on his mother’s side. And although those miserable Paphlagonians knew that both his parents were obscure, humble folk, they believed the oracle when it said.....
Kaplan says it is suggestive of the Fool- neh, I say it is suggestive the Rascal Alexander.

e I have never found the 21 cards as a Christian Salvation sequence anyway; rather more a satire.
~Rosanne
Well, tragedy might have met comedy in this question ... as it did in theater development.. Rapresentatione stood beside comedies.

Bologna (Albert studied there) was object to Christian theater engagement. Cardinal Cesarini used it to stop gambling between the students. Alberti possibly accompanied Cesarini at one of his Northern journeys.

Alberti organized the literary contest in Florence in October 1441.

Pietro di Medici engaged in the first Trionfi poem with illumination. His wife Lucrezia Tornuabuoni engaged in the rapresentatione of the San Giovanni festivities. And she detected Pulci and Pulci wrote the "Morgante", funny knights for the boys of the Medici. And Alberti wrote an educational work for Lorenzo.

And Boiardo wrote an alternative "Orlando".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huck View Post
Agreed, there seems to be a connection .... But I wonder, why you overlooked it such a long time. Occasionally it was a topic, especially in connection to Alberti ... and his "Momus", a text written 1443-50 (so in early Trionfi deck time).
Hmmm! You startled me with this observation. I guess I never really trusted myself and kept getting drawn back into serious 'Catholic' conversations. I think I annoyed some (I can think of one or two in particular ) with my constant harping that there did not seem to be this seriousness of a Salvation theory and Tarot seemed to be 'borax poking' at the Church. Maybe the Borax poking was more about human behaviour than the Church.
I am stupidly to easily influenced by others who seem to have more elite stations in Tarot history than myself.
I have always admired how you stick to your guns Huck, about things like the amount of Trumps at the start. One poster on another forum put it like this....If you have written proof of one thing (like 14 cards) and just an idea that there was 21 or 22 then the 14 cards is proof and the 21/22 is just literature. I laughed when I saw that. The poster was French and I have not got his quote exact because it was in another forum.
One has to have a whole bench of confidence to express an alternative view.
I am into Leon Battista Alberti as I tentatively said on a thread here....
Quote:
All things that I am personally interested in via Tarot come together in Leon Battista Alberti- The Timing, Florence, The Council of Florence, The manuscripts circulating, Astronomy and astrology are but just a few.
I should have said Lucian of Samosata alongside.
Thank you for bringing me back to my initial instincts from 12 years ago.
~Rosanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosanne View Post
Hmmm! You startled me with this observation. I guess I never really trusted myself and kept getting drawn back into serious 'Catholic' conversations. I think I annoyed some (I can think of one or two in particular ) with my constant harping that there did not seem to be this seriousness of a Salvation theory and Tarot seemed to be 'borax poking' at the Church. Maybe the Borax poking was more about human behaviour than the Church.
I am stupidly to easily influenced by others who seem to have more elite stations in Tarot history than myself.
I have always admired how you stick to your guns Huck, about things like the amount of Trumps at the start. One poster on another forum put it like this....If you have written proof of one thing (like 14 cards) and just an idea that there was 21 or 22 then the 14 cards is proof and the 21/22 is just literature. I laughed when I saw that. The poster was French and I have not got his quote exact because it was in another forum.
One has to have a whole bench of confidence to express an alternative view.
I am into Leon Battista Alberti as I tentatively said on a thread here....

I should have said Lucian of Samosata alongside.
Thank you for bringing me back to my initial instincts from 12 years ago.
~Rosanne
... :-) .... well ... Lucian is usually worth to be read. He's so different than most of the others, that one might think, that there is a big difference between those, who knew him during 15th century, and those, who knew him not.

A sort of Latin Chuang-Tze, not as old as Chuang-Tse, a few centuries younger and with more competition by other authors, just Roman empire, and not old China, where most scriptures were lost.

You should read Momus, if you hadn't, at least the plot of the story as given in the introduction. That are only a few pages.
http://books.google.de/books?id=2ZNc...page&q&f=false
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Searching for a reason for Colleoni heraldry on the Ace of Cups ....



... which is on the full card only a smaller detail:



The inscription on top is according Kaplan (who likely had a better view) on the picture not readable, and it isn't part on the comparable ace of cups in the Victoria-Albert Museum.



What a pity! Hasn't anybody an idea about it?

***********

Following Colleoni ...

http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/...Biografico%29/
Quote:
Alle prime ore del 2 novembre il C. morì a Malpaga, forse di epatite acuta: il 4 novembre fu sepolto a Bergamo, probabilmente nella sua cappella non ancora ultimata; ma ancora oggi si discute circa l'esatta localizzazione dei suoi resti. Giovanni Michele Carrara e Guglielmo Pagello pronunciarono le orazioni funebri.

Il C. morì senza diretti eredi maschi, ma ebbe otto figlie, legittime ed illegittime. Tre figlie, Ursina, Caterina ed Isotta sposarono membri della famiglia Martinengo, i più stretti collaboratori militari del Colleoni. I figli di Ursina, la sua primogenita sposata a Gherardo Martinengo, presero il nome di Colleoni ed avrebbero dovuto essere i maggiori beneficiari del suo testamento. Medea, la sua figlia preferita, morì nubile nel 1470 e Cassandra e Polissena sposarono rispettivamente Niccolò da Correggio e Bernardo da Lodrone. Le altre due figlie, Riccadonna e Doratina, ancora nubili alla morte del padre, sposarono in seguito due membri dell'importante famiglia veneziana dei Barozzi, portando cospicue doti provenienti dalle proprietà del Colleoni.
Colleoni had 8 daughters, partly illegitimate, no sons. Cassandra, who married Niccolo da Correggio, didn't belong to the major heirs. Three daughters married to the Martinengo family. Ursina was the first born, and she had two sons, which became the major heirs in the testament.

One daughter married Bernardo da Lodrone ... that's (likely) a relative to the man, who married the sister of cardinal Gurk in 1503, Apollonia. But it's difficult to place her husband inside the genealogy tables, as far I got some.

***********

In early 1512 Bergamo (major place for Colleoni descendents) and Brescia revolted against the French occupation ...

http://www.cristoraul.com/ENGLISH/hi...F-CAMBRAY.html
Quote:
The allies had already made a practicable breach in the walls of Bologna, when the Duke of Nemours hastened to Finale, whence, during a tempestuous night of wind and snow, he succeeded in throwing himself into Bologna, with 1300 lances, and 14,000 infantry, without meeting a single vidette or sentry (February 5th). Don Raymond de Cardona immediately raised the siege, and retired to Imola.

Gaston [de Fox] was deterred from pursuing the enemy by news which arrived from Lombardy. Brescia and Bergamo, revolted at the cruelty and brutality of the French garrisons, had admitted the Venetians with cries of Viva San Marco! and it was to be feared that this success might invite a new invasion of the Swiss. Gaston now made even a more extraordinary march than his former one. Leaving 300 lances and 4000 foot in Bologna, he quitted that city with the rest of his army, February 8th, and appeared before Brescia on the 16th, after attacking with his cavalry and defeating on the way, near Isola della Scala, the Venetian division under Baglione. This immense distance, therefore, was accomplished in eight days, in spite of broken roads and overflowed rivers. On the day of the affair with Baglione, who had no notion that the enemy was near, Gaston’s cavalry is said by an eyewitness to have marched fifty miles without drawing bridle. The battle was fought at four o'clock in the morning, by the light of the stars and the snow. Brescia was taken by assault, to which Gaston mounted with bare feet, on account of the slippery nature of the soil. It was here that Bayard received a wound, which was at first thought mortal. The inhabitants made an obstinate defense, for which they suffered by a general massacre, and a sack accompanied with the most horrible outrages, which lasted a week. Brescia was the richest city of Lombardy after Milan. The plunder was estimated at three million crowns; but this sack contributed much to ruin the French army, as a great part of the soldiers returned home to enjoy their booty. Bergamo submitted, and escaped with a fine of 20,000 ducats.
This had happened in February 1512.

Quote:
This campaign of a fortnight, in which Bologna had been rescued, the Venetians defeated, and Brescia and Bergamo recovered, is perhaps one of the most extraordinary on record, and spread the fame of the Duke of Nemours [= Gaston de Foix] over all Europe. But, in spite of this brilliant success, the French cause in Italy seemed anything but promising.
The page ...
http://www.bibliotecamai.org/editori...troduzione.htm
... presents
Giovanni Silini: "BERGAMO 1512. Narrazione degli avvenimenti politici e militari di un anno drammatico."
That's a longer text, and occasionally appear persons with the name Colleoni. It's too long for my poor Italian to check it, if there's somehow a reason given, why the Colleoni heraldry appeared on a deck apparently made in 1512.
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Quote:
if there's somehow a reason given, why the Colleoni heraldry appeared on a deck apparently made in 1512.
As you have noted Bartolmeo Colleoni had only female heirs...but
Quote:
The family Martinengo Colleoni is one of the many branches of the family Martinengo in Brescia and takes its origin from the Bartolomeo Colleoni (1392/1396 - 1475) and as Thisbe Martinengo, who joined in marriage around 1439. Colleoni. Having no male heirs, the captain requires Orsini, the third of his daughters and wife of Gherardo Martinengo, to add, to the children/grandchildren, the name of the husband Martinengo- Colleoni. Therefore Isolde, Caterina Orsini and Colleoni, daughters of Bartholomew and Thisbe, respectively wives of James, Gaspar and Gherardo Martinengo give rise to families of Motella Martinengo, from balls and just Martinengo- Colleoni.
So it is possible son of Gherado, one Alexander (1456-1527) named Alessandro Colleoni, a soldier, was made a Knight for public acts of bravery against the french.
He has the three figs or testes on his heraldry. Maybe these decks were for him.
Two fountains- two Cups one arrow. Cannot read the motto.
Interestingly as Bartolmeo had not a male heir- his chief inheritor was the Republic of Saint Mark who doled out his money to various charities. One especially rich foundation was 'La Pieta' for dowries and Poor girls in Bergamo and I believe Bresica.
Alessandro also was a patron for some large art works.
~Rosanne
Here is a painting of him as knight and wife Barbara, dressed as Saint Alessandro and Barbara as was usual as sponsors of the work (left lower)
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lorenzo_Lotto_012.jpg
He apparently received his Knighthood for actions in the Battle of Agnadello (Vaila)1509, 1511/1512 received his knighthood..per i suoi meriti viene armato cavaliere dai Veneziani!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosanne View Post
As you have noted Bartolmeo Colleoni had only female heirs...but


So it is possible son of Gherado, one Alexander (1456-1527) named Alessandro Colleoni, a soldier, was made a Knight for public acts of bravery against the french.
He has the three figs or testes on his heraldry. Maybe these decks were for him.
Two fountains- two Cups one arrow. Cannot read the motto.
Interestingly as Bartolmeo had not a male heir- his chief inheritor was the Republic of Saint Mark who doled out his money to various charities. One especially rich foundation was 'La Pieta' for dowries and Poor girls in Bergamo and I believe Bresica.
Alessandro also was a patron for some large art works.
~Rosanne
Here is a painting of him as knight and wife Barbara, dressed as Saint Alessandro and Barbara as was usual as sponsors of the work (left lower)
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lorenzo_Lotto_012.jpg
He apparently received his Knighthood for actions in the Battle of Agnadello (Vaila)1509, 1511/1512 received his knighthood..per i suoi meriti viene armato cavaliere dai Veneziani!
Well, that's an idea, possibly a real good idea. The commission for the church painting was done in 1513, so "after Alessandro returned". Cause likely he left the region, when Bergamo became French. His place seems to have been Malpaga Castle, about which Andrea Vitali wrote ...
http://www.letarot.it/page.aspx?id=354&lng=ENG



After 1513 there were Gonzaga-Martinengo marriages.
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Just a wee question lol. In those descriptions of murals at Malpaga Castle. There is one called Peasant (man with large straw hat.) That caught my eye, as I consider myself a small expert on 'Straw Hats' . That figure is very reminiscent of Saint George's hat in this..
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=pa...ml%3B307%3B500
You see that is a very un-like a peasant hat made of straw. It would have taken off with one swing of the scythe. Nor would he have been able to milk the cow. If it is Saint George, the simple soldier- it recalls the Dragon.
Do you think so?
~Rosanne
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