Dealing with 'proofers'

Hi

How do you deal with people critiquing & wanting you to proof that tarot works/explain yourself. For me it's not abracadabra at all (duh, lol) but explaining that while having an Uzi pointed at you (or something similar/really being under attack ) I find kinda difficult. I'm quite direct, but I found it hard to listen & validate and on the other hand also explaining what tarot is and how I like to read & stand my ground. Any tricks/tips/recommended books on dialogues/being assertive classes or just not trying to explain so hard & work on shrugging the shoulders a bit more?

How do you deal with this?

Thanks

I just say something like, "Some people find it meaningful, some don't. It's not my job to define it, defend it, or to persuade you either way."

It helps a lot if you decide you really don't care what the other person thinks, because you won't be able to persuade someone whose mind is already made up--and that type of person often gets a lot of satisfaction out of baiting others into an unwinnable debate.

Apollonia said:

I just say something like, "Some people find it meaningful, some don't. It's not my job to define it, defend it, or to persuade you either way."

It helps a lot if you decide you really don't care what the other person thinks, because you won't be able to persuade someone whose mind is already made up--and that type of person often gets a lot of satisfaction out of baiting others into an unwinnable debate.

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Thanks so much for your reply Yes, I want to say that & I also agree with what you say, it really is a waste of energy to go into a debate. It still doesn't always comes out of my mouth that way though This was actually for someone who also wanted to write a piece about it, but I noticed I found myself explaining too much. And then I got annoyed with myself for trying to validate.

I always tell people to believe whatever they want to believe about the cards. Then I go on to explain that it's a system of sorts that seems to work out quite well for me. If they don't believe it works then they should walk away.

In other words, I'm direct and own the conversation. If they want to argue, there are debate clubs they could join. ;-)

I ignore them. I don't believe in their gods and wouldn't expect them to prove their existence.
In this country we can think what we like and do as we wish.

Some people love debate though and it is a good subject to debate over.

There is almost nothing that we can say that these people will hear. If you are very brave you can suggest they purchase a reading and decide for themselves but honestly I wouldn't relish the thought of reading for them.

Seems like usually, when someone is asking for proof, what they really want is for the proof to fail. They want to find the holes in your proof; they want the opposite of what they say they want - they want to prove to you that it isn't valid.

Some people enjoy those kinds of arguments, which is fine; if it entertains you, then have at it.

Occasionally there's someone who is actually open to another viewpoint, even if they don't end up buying into it. I have on occasion had interesting and worthwhile conversations about tarot with people who started out aggressive. For me, it has to be that, though - a conversation, not an argument and not a "prove it to me" situation.

I do not have to demonstrate my faith in catholicism/Hinduism/whatever and for the same reason I do not have to demonstrate faith in tarot. So, talkingabout religion, no one usually will ask you why you believe in God, and for the same principle, on one should ask you to justify your faith in tarot. More or less it will be my answer

I don't have the slightest interest in convincing anyone that tarot works. I might feel differently about it were I a commercial tarot reader. Tarot works. Of that I am absolutely certain. However, I don't think that a logical argument to that effect can be constructed, nor do I think that an actual demonstration under laboratory conditions is doable.

A slight digression:

At the present state of our knowledge, tarot reading is more of an art than a science, but art is not invalidated by the fact that it is not science. Nor is science unconditionally validated by the tautological truism that science is science. It has contextual validity, but science has no particular claim to absolute truth, although that is its (unattainable) goal. Newton's theory of gravitation was right until Einstein came along. Now it's wrong. That does not mean that the baby should be thrown out with the bath water. Science represents the apex of human knowledge, but science is not art, nor does it purport to address such vital issues as, for example, the meaning of life.

I would welcome a debate or even argument on the subject, but if one is to enter that arena one should know well what one actually thinks ( and so actually have some valid ideas oneself about it first) and how it is working for you ... and how to answer the others points and the twists and turns as the conversation goes along.

But I am talking about an intelligent conversation, not one where the other refuses to answer poignant questions , lays red herrings all over the place, is unaware that they tripped themselves up, cant logically string together their ideas, doesn't contradict themselves, doesn't interrupt or 'invalidate' your relevant points with the assertion that your mother wears army boots and doesn't think questioning their ideas and seeking their validation of them is a personal attack on their character.

I few times I have dealt with them when actually reading (at my market stall) ... of course one doesnt have time for that then ... once there was the age old question; this guy challenged me and thought if it was true two consecutive readings on the same question should throw up the same cards. he seemed quiet smug about it and thought he had worked out a way to 'mis-prove' tarot (without even first finding out what I was doing or how I viewed it ) ... so instead of explaining all that I invited him to sit down and 'let's try it'. To my surprise (and his) a large number of cards and a few in the same place came up again (much more than when I have ever done that experiment myself). But I didnt let him know that ... I just let him go off to think about it.

Thats one of the interesting things about tarot ( and other 'related' subjects ) ... how come THAT time it worked so well ?