Some people have and some haven't? Or all have but not all know it?

danieljuk

I come from an environment of no psychics. My parents don't mind my tarot but I don't know anyone in my family in the last 3 generations who were like me. They all had very logical jobs (mostly health / science /teaching). My environment wasn't like CN's where it was supported in the environment. But it wasn't forbidden either or demonised.

I was always interested in the occult and got my first tarot deck at 13. It's been and on and off thing for me but I only really tapped into my intuition in the last year. I get psychic messages now. I think I always had it but didn't listen to it and wasn't open or receptive. I also didn't trust in them. I can't exactly say that I repressed it or wasn't listening to it but it just didn't seem to be there, like now.

But I know someone who is a Doctor and so logical! he never bases anything on his heart or intuition. But I still believe somewhere there is a gut instinct still :) In my family members there might be a feeling there but perhaps they don't always listen to it, what is the logical reason or evidence for this? type questioning.

I am fairly certain I was born with it and think it's quite a skill for me but perhaps a supportive environment or having family members who used that skill, might have made me tap into it faster :)
 

MandMaud

I come from an environment of no psychics. My parents don't mind my tarot but I don't know anyone in my family in the last 3 generations who were like me. They all had very logical jobs (mostly health / science /teaching). My environment wasn't like CN's where it was supported in the environment. But it wasn't forbidden either or demonised.

I was always interested in the occult and got my first tarot deck at 13. It's been and on and off thing for me but I only really tapped into my intuition in the last year. I get psychic messages now. I think I always had it but didn't listen to it and wasn't open or receptive. I also didn't trust in them. I can't exactly say that I repressed it or wasn't listening to it but it just didn't seem to be there, like now.

But I know someone who is a Doctor and so logical! he never bases anything on his heart or intuition. But I still believe somewhere there is a gut instinct still :) In my family members there might be a feeling there but perhaps they don't always listen to it, what is the logical reason or evidence for this? type questioning.

I am fairly certain I was born with it and think it's quite a skill for me but perhaps a supportive environment or having family members who used that skill, might have made me tap into it faster :)

There are doctors who do use their intuition, and heart. (Thank goodness.) But I know the type, people who claim science as their religion - not that they'd use those words - and it becomes their excuse for never taking an actual scientific approach to anything.

Instead of judging on evidence and experience, they discard anything that "Science" doesn't currently agree with - without examining it. That's the very opposite of the scientific attitude. Stephen Fry once said (in the middle of QI, which amuses me): "It is faith that says 'We know.' Science says 'We don't know yet.'" Another reason to like Fry.

I have a feeling that when someone is adamantly one end of the scale, whichever scale we're talking about (beliefs / politics / optimism/pessimism... anything that divides opinion, really), very often it's because they're actually at the other end of the scale. I will elaborate on this when it's not midnight. :D

ps. I myself used to believe logic answered everything and was rigorous in keeping myself on the "straight and narrow" with it. Luckily I put the empirical method above that, and questioned the very premise that logic solved things. And luckily certain experiences in life made me take Cups, as well as Pents and Wands, seriously rather than only Swords. That's how I ended up here, but I do have sympathy with the anti-woowoo(!) because I used to be one.
 

MandMaud

In fact i have a horrible feeling I'm going to drop out of this having begun it, which I hate but it's what poor health makes happen sometimes. I don't want to and don't intend to. But a major project has just landed in my lap - by project I mean urgent replying to officialdom and gathering my admin forces and researching where the hell to find advice etc... and that kind of thing usually pushes other stuff out of my life. :( If this thread waits some days for me, I apologise in advance. When I look at all your thoughts I can feel a whole essay coming over me... :)
 

Karrma

I love that, "I don't know yet."
Because I do not know everyone else.
I myself have experienced something, but I don't even know what it is. Is it my angels or guides, or my unconscious? Or a multiplicity of things? (for me, I believe least some are guides, as I cannot explain it otherwise)
It has saved lives, and sometimes when I don't listen, I really pay afterwards.
It is not always there (at least consciously), but seems to be present when I REALLY need it.
 

MandMaud

A bit late but I made it back here. :)

Or maybe some just have it more than others?

I dont think we all have it potentially to a high level, for a few reasons. LIke all other skills, some seem 'naturals' to it and others hopeless at it.
That's my feeling too, probably, but it is simply a skill or is it skill plus something?

Writing is what I have most experience in, and while (some) non-writers think that's simply an inborn talent, writers know it's both - gift plus learnt skill, and the learnt part is why it is worth having creative writing courses. Technique can be taught; but there's also the "You've either got it or you haven't" part which can't be taught. Most writers (I mean those who have gone beyond dabbling, professional or with a professional attitude at least) agree on this. You could call it art vs. craft, if you like.

I suppose I'm wondering whether the same thing goes on with whatever we're naming this that I'm asking about. Now there's some tangled phrasing! lol

(Interesting that no one has picked up on what name we use for it; we don't need to, we all know the "it" that we're talking about.* One of my favourite things about AT is how we discuss, which is so Swords, things which are far more Cups and Fire, without tripping over these logistical things, it's down to the respect between people here I think.)
* and I really need to decide which term I shall adopt.

What's been said here about physiology, nutrition, EMF sensitivity etc - I'd include neurology too - is really interesting. It seems sensible to think the whole person, the physical as well as psyche etc, is part of what happens. We can't fully know what happens, IMHO. We do know that a lot more goes on within and between our bodies than we understand. A bit like mapping the ocean bed!

It can depend on one's makeup and receptivity to it and how one processes it. For example, I am fortunate in the this area with a Neptune chart ruler well aspected to Jupiter and Mercury. Some peoples psychic makeup dont allow it, cant process it or balance it.
I include this with other "givens" such as the physical influences. Then there's society's influence; if you grow up never hearing it referred to, never having the words for it or any acknowledgement that it exists, then you'll only be aware of it if you're at the exceptional end of the scale - but if you grow up where everyone takes it for granted and speaks about it as just another part of the world, like weather and sleep and hearing, then even the very poorly "gifted" will be in touch with their own feel for it.

... Looks like I'm tending towards there being the germ of it in everyone, but inborn to a greater degree in some than others - like any other gift, as you say - which then is affected by attitude. Nature + Nurture. Fifty-fifty or not, I wonder?

On the heredity question, I have no idea. But that's a bit like other traits such as, say, being useless with money (or good with finance), or appreciating art, or ending up in prison - the same child born into a different family would turn out differently.

Anyone know if twin studies have been done on this?

Some people don't realize that they do have 'it' though.
This is an important point. Some people take it for granted, not noticing that others don't do the same things (knowing who's on the phone, your example) - I have a friend who denies she has hypermobile joints because she's always been able to put her palms flat on the floor with knees straight etc (now well into her 50s) and takes it for granted ... others just assume they don't, that's something other people have, and so they never "ask themselves" ... when you think about it, people reach middle age, married with kids, before realising they're gay - hard to explain but we can all be totally unaware of what's "obvious" in ourselves! And surely, if you've never heard of being gay then it wouldn't occur to you? I'm thinking of Victorian wives here! My gran had three children without knowing how they were made. Trying not to digress *wrenches self back on topic* - why wouldn't it happen the same with this? In fact I'm sure it does.

Which comes back to the "logical". I knew someone who was very dismissive of (for example) homeopathy - "No, I don't believe in any of that, I'm a scientist!" She had a degree in biochemistry. But she took my opinion seriously because I had a degree (albeit arts) from a better university, so she was astonished that I used homeopathy... but I said, having seen it work on animals and babies who can't possibly know what it's supposed to do, that's evidence enough for me. I'd have been disappointed that she switched her opinion instantly, nothing to do with converting to scientific method - the approach of requiring evidence etc - all to do with having pigeonholed me as knowing what I was talking about. That's the exact opposite of what I am, I'm constantly trying to work out what I'm talking about(!) but her way of thinking was unreasoning - 100% anti-scientific! - you can't hold a belief on a true/false question based on who thinks which opinion, but that's what she did. (Sadly, that's what most do but it was more visible the way she did it.)

What I'm coming round to is that I believe in this stuff because of logic, not despite it. Another word for logic is reason. The truly reasonable are open. I was about to quote Stephen Fry again, but caught myself just in time, realised I quoted him last week... :D

People have various reasons/excuses for not seeing that they and others have intuition, etc. Some of it must be down to not being provided with the language to think consciously about it. Some is the "scientist's" assumptions... some, like my grandmother for instance, would just name it within the framework they've been taught. I once went to a discussion about spirituality which ended up being all about church, and I sat people-watching, spotting the two or three of us who didn't think spirituality = Christianity... or organised religion of any kind... but most people aren't introduced to anything broader. Then my gran was also very frightened by it, and I'm sure it was strong within her. It frightened me too, when I was younger - not because it felt ungodly etc, but because another word for awe is fear and I think the feeling I had was awe, but what I noticed was the fear element.

I love that, "I don't know yet."
Because I do not know everyone else.
I myself have experienced something, but I don't even know what it is. Is it my angels or guides, or my unconscious? Or a multiplicity of things? (for me, I believe least some are guides, as I cannot explain it otherwise)
It has saved lives, and sometimes when I don't listen, I really pay afterwards.
It is not always there (at least consciously), but seems to be present when I REALLY need it.
I think, maybe, everyone has it and with the right trigger, often a life-or-death situation, or something traumatic, it comes to the fore. I don't think you meant life-or-death when you said "REALLY need it" :laugh: but bear with me. Say, everyone has it but some have a lower threshold that will let them know about it - some need to be falling off a cliff, others just need to be five years old and sensing tension between their parents and the in-laws.

I'm beginning to spark from one idea to another. The notion of trauma as trigger leads me to the shamanic thing of soul loss etc (or call it post-traumatic stress). Again, the trigger brings out the talent.

I believe that if you find multiple cultures and traditions claim the same thing, that lends weight to its being accurate.


Sorry this has come out disjointed, and I've probably repeated myself en route. I'm tired but I wanted to thrash this out - in my own mind. Just thinking aloud here, and watching the way my thinking goes.

One thing I do know, having started on the path of developing the skill (or whatever it is) and learning what to do with it, and not yet knowing how far it may reach, is bloomin' exciting.

Thanks for all this input, I'm a lot closer to knowing what my view is on this! :)
 

CelestialHorse

I wonder how do you know when it's your heart/intuition talking vs. your mind?
 

MandMaud

I wonder how do you know when it's your heart/intuition talking vs. your mind?

Now there's a whole other question! :) And more to it than initially struck me. Nowadays I "just know"... I think it has to do with emotion. When a strong emotion attaches to the thought, wish or fear or annoyance or something, it's probably not intuition. Have a feeling I read that somewhere too, and tried it and found it makes sense. I'll try and remember where.

It's not as cut n dried as that sounds, of course, or we'd all have learnt this stuff at our mothers' knee.

What I do nowadays is ask myself. When the thought comes, I question whether this is true - and you'll find you already know. Then remember that overthinking is the greatest enemy of clarity!