Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Live Tarot Readings Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive

The Court Cards and the I Ching

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot Special Interest > Thoth Tarot


 
Michael Sternbach's Avatar
Michael Sternbach  Michael Sternbach is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 942
Michael Sternbach 
Citizen

Michael Sternbach's Avatar
The Court Cards and the I Ching


Hi Aeclectics,

As every Thothie knows, every Court Card is attributed with a hexagram according to Crowley's peculiar system of linking the four elements of the Western tradition with the I Ching. In this thread, I would like to explore this topic, hoping to find out how far we can take the analogy. I would like to know what each of you makes out of this scheme. For example, whether you apply it when reading the cards, and if so, how. Does the analogy extend to the so-called individual lines that accompyny each hexagram - as Crowley suggests? Not all of them seem to be applicable...

I start out by comparing the Prince of Disks with the corresponding hexagram 53 or Chien. I use the Wilhelm translation.

http://www2.unipr.it/~deyoung/I_Chin...anslation.html

Chien is translated as "Development (Gradual Progress)." About it, we read:

"This gives the idea of a development that proceeds gradually, step by step. The attributes of the trigrams also point to this: within is tranquillity, which guards against precipitate actions, and without is penetration, which makes development and progress possible."

This is in fact in line with the characterization of the Prince of Disks in the BoT:

"The character denoted by this card is that of great energy brought to bear upon the most solid of practical matters. He is energetic and enduring, a capable manager, a steadfast and per severing worker. He is competent, ingenious, thoughtful, cautious, 'trustworthy, imperturbable; he constantly seeks new uses for common things, and adapts his circumstances to his purposes in a slow, steady, well-thought out plan."

Again, the I Ching:

"Gentleness that is adaptable, but at the same time penetrating, is the outer form that should proceed from inner calm. The very gradualness of the development makes it necessary to have perseverance, for perseverance alone prevents slow progress from dwindling to nothing."

The individual lines don't seem to say much about our Prince, perhaps with the exception of "six in the second place": "Eating and drinking in peace and concord." In my understanding, the Prince of Disks is definitely inclined towards such sensual pleasures.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #1
Richard's Avatar
Richard  Richard is offline
Le Mat
 
Join Date: 21 Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 6,587
Richard 
Le Mat

Richard's Avatar

I checked it out for the Knight of Wands, fire of fire, hexagram 51. It does seem to work. I never thought much about it before. I don't see why the individual lines necessarily should be relevant though.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #2
ravenest's Avatar
ravenest  ravenest is offline
ravenator
 
Join Date: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 13,835
ravenest 
ravenator

ravenest's Avatar
Question


Could they work as 'constructs' that make up the hexagram the same way as the 'constructs' that make up a card ( number, suit, decan, segment of zodiac, etc ) ?
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #3
Richard's Avatar
Richard  Richard is offline
Le Mat
 
Join Date: 21 Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 6,587
Richard 
Le Mat

Richard's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Could they work as 'constructs' that make up the hexagram the same way as the 'constructs' that make up a card ( number, suit, decan, segment of zodiac, etc ) ?
I don't know. I never thought of them that way. I use the meanings of individual lines only when they come up as moving lines (old yin or old yang) in divination, but there are other ways to consider them.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #4
Michael Sternbach's Avatar
Michael Sternbach  Michael Sternbach is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 942
Michael Sternbach 
Citizen

Michael Sternbach's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Could they work as 'constructs' that make up the hexagram the same way as the 'constructs' that make up a card ( number, suit, decan, segment of zodiac, etc ) ?
Well, in a way, yes... They contribute to the overall structure of the hexagram. But individually, they are only significant in a reading as moving lines (as greater yin and yang, respectively). How this relates to the traits of the Court Cards is a question only further analysis of individual cards and their corresponding hexagrams may answer. The BoT invariably refers to both the main text and the individual lines, anyway.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #5
foolMoon's Avatar
foolMoon  foolMoon is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 30 Apr 2014
Location: Garden of Light
Posts: 985
foolMoon 
Citizen

foolMoon's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sternbach View Post
Hi Aeclectics,

As every Thothie knows, every Court Card is attributed with a hexagram according to Crowley's peculiar system of linking the four elements of the Western tradition with the I Ching.

Where could I find the attribution details? I have looked into BoT and also Liber777, but could not spot whereabouts on the full attribution. Thanks.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #6
Richard's Avatar
Richard  Richard is offline
Le Mat
 
Join Date: 21 Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 6,587
Richard 
Le Mat

Richard's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolMoon View Post
Where could I find the attribution details? I have looked into BoT and also Liber777, but could not spot whereabouts on the full attribution. Thanks.
You need a copy of the Yi Ching. Crowley's version might be best for this application, but any will do. You need to know the elemental attributions of the court cards. Here's an example: Queen of Wands. This is water of fire. Now look at the table of trigrams in 777 (see attachment). The trigram for fire is

_ _
_ _
___

The trigram for water is

_ _
___
___

Use fire for the lower trigram and water for the upper and you get hexagram 17. You can find this in the chart in any copy of the Yi Ching.

_ _
___
___
_ _
_ _
___

This is the hexagram for the Queen of Wands. In BoT, I think the final paragraph of the description of each court card gives the interpretation of the corresponding hexagram.
Attached Images
 
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #7
foolMoon's Avatar
foolMoon  foolMoon is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 30 Apr 2014
Location: Garden of Light
Posts: 985
foolMoon 
Citizen

foolMoon's Avatar

Wow superb. Thank you LRichard for your excellent explanation.

Talking about synchronicity, I have already ordered a copy of big I Ching book from Amazon last week without any thought. How odd, and I am glad
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #8
rachelcat's Avatar
rachelcat  rachelcat is offline
XII. The Hanging Cat
 
Join Date: 30 Oct 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 3,403
rachelcat 
XII. The Hanging Cat

rachelcat's Avatar

I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'd like to add some notes I made a few days ago.

The Book of Thoth hexagram assignments are regular:
The bottom trigram is the suit, the upper trigram is the rank.

In I Ching, there are eight trigrams. Four are used for the courts. The trigrams NOT used are ones with three lines the same, Heaven
_____
_____
_____

and Earth,
__ __
__ __
__ __

and the ones with the single different line in the middle (middle son and daughter),
Fire
_____
__ __
_____

and Water.
__ __
_____
__ __

Crowley calls the Fire trigram “Sol,” and the Water trigram “Luna.”

The trigrams that ARE used are the ones with the single different line at the bottom and top (the eldest son and daughter and youngest son and daughter). Here are the trigram attributions:

Fire (Wands and Knights) =
Thunder
__ __
__ __
_____

Water (Cups and Queens) =
Lake
__ __
_____
_____

Air (Swords and Princes) =
Wind (sometimes called Wood)
_____
_____
__ __

Earth (Disks and Princesses) =
Mountain
_____
__ __
__ __

Attached is a table of all the court hexagram attributions.

Obviously, this is only 16 (4x4) of 64 available hexagrams (8x8).

Also obviously, four of the hexagrams are doubled trigrams.

A bit of a tangent, but might be interesting to someone: Even though the numbered order of the hexagrams does not reflect a regular geometric or mathematical progression, most hexagrams are paired with their inverse, that is, many hexagrams are an upside-down version of the one numbered before it. For example, 18 is hexagram 17 turned upside-down. The links in meaning, however, are not always all that apparent. (Sometimes they are: 41. Decreasing to 42. Increasing). The I Ching commentary text attempts to explain the links, but sometimes it’s a little far-fetched. For the record, this set of hexagrams includes inverses for all of its hexagrams:

17, 18
27, 28
31, 32
41, 42
51, 52
53, 54
57, 58
61, 62

For what it's worth . . .
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Thoth Court Hexagram Attributions.pdf (211.5 KB, 46 views)
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #9
foolMoon's Avatar
foolMoon  foolMoon is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 30 Apr 2014
Location: Garden of Light
Posts: 985
foolMoon 
Citizen

foolMoon's Avatar

Another great info about the question. Last week I just felt like reading about I ching, and ordered the book (still to be arrived this week), and now I feel that it would be a great idea to link Tarot and I Ching.

Thank you Rachelcat. Much appreciated
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #10


 


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

The Aeclectic Tarot Forum closed permanently on July 14th, 2017. The public threads remain online as a read-only archive and resource. More information on our decision can be found here. Thank you for being a part of our active community over the past seventeen years.

Copyright © 1996 - 2017 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.