Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur (1757 - 1810)


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Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur (1757 - 1810)


Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur", now occasionally shortened to JGSS by myself, proved to have been of importance for the production of the Petit Oracle des Dames (POdD) , possibly as author, possibly only as dominating producer.

RELATED DECKS

Old research to POdD, at begin are all the cards:
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=171379
This research was preceded at THF.

In this pre-Christmas days of 2015 a deck was detected by Kwaw ...
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv...planchecontact
French divination deck with 66 cards

... at Gallica and this finding opened a new base of discussion in the theme of POdD. DDD had pointed to this 66-card-deck once and had stated, that it had influenced the development of POdD, but it couldn't be located.

Now we can see, that it indeed prepared the POdD

Additionally Philippe brought another divination deck (42 cards) of Russian production in 1425 to our attention, which also was strongly influenced by the French 66-cards deck.

http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks05/d02370/d02370.htm

Kwaw spoke of a deck in the British Museum, which has also relations to POdD and to the 66-cards divination deck. Meanwhile it seems clear, that this deck did run under the name Petit Necromancien or Nouvel Eteila.

British Museum: 36 cards
http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...=eteila&page=1
[quote]

Another "strange" deck appeared in 1820 (detected some longer time ago), which also had small relations to the POdD, said to be from JGSS (who was already dead in 1820).
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/...%89trangers%27

And it is proven, that JGSS also participated in the production of Etteilla decks with 33 cards before 1798 under the address of Rue Nicaise.

So far an overview, which decks are considered to have context with JGSS.

*********

DISCUSSIONS to the theme

... took place in the last days here:

Thread: Petit Oracles de les dames, c. 1807
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=122602&page=34
.... following to post #336

Thread:
Etteilla Timeline and Etteilla card Variants - background http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=171379&page=5
... following to post # 44

There are many different points. I focus in this text on the problem of the unknown origin of 66-cards divination deck.

Philippe had argued, that the deck had its origin around the person of François-Emmanuel Guignard de Saint-Priest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C...e_Saint-Priest
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C...e_Saint-Priest

Philippe stated:
Quote:
François-Emmanuel Guignard de Saint-Priest that we can see on the third card, just after Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette. He was Secrétaire d'Etat à la Maison du Roi (1789-1790) renamed into Ministre de l'Intérieur (the first in France) in 1789-1791. The man wrote memoirs and he had no inclination for occult matters. For instance he despises Friedrich Wilhelm II for having fallen under the influence of Bischoffwerder. But he was very proud of his achievements during the russian-turkish war (a double-game policy, he has always been in favour of Russia). The deck may have been intended to entertain his wife (the german aristocrat Wilhelmine Constance von Ludolf) or his children.
MikeH suggested also Guignard, and I myself after some reading through some biography agree, that it is a somehow probable person in this matter.

Base of this rare quick agreement is the last card of the deck, which shows a map a Turco-Russian war (probably that of 1768-1772).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-...768%E2%80%9374)
... the region shown is at the Eastern side of the Black Sea, the red object stands for battlefields during the war.
During this war Guignard became French ambassador (1768) for the Ottoman empire and stayed there for most time of the next 17 years.

The deck shows 3 ministers and 1 prelate, they likely present real political figures of the related. Guignard was ministre l'interieure, a position, which he got short after the attack on the Bastille in July 1989. The minister is shown on card 3.



These are bigger points, others are the appearance of an Ottoman ruler and Trojan heroes in the deck.

*********

QUESTION for the engraver of the 66-cards deck

JGSS had been active with graphical products in many ways, also with playing cards. Evidence for this is given at least since 1798. It's a possibility, that he already earlier
got experience in the playing card business.

Guignard had been ambassador for a long time, and the Grasset St.Sauveur family also had roles in the diplomatic business. The father Andre Grasset-St.Sauveur, once a very rich business man in Canada, went into the role as a consul in Trieste for a long time. As Guignard had been a long time ambassador in Constantinople, it's very plausible, that both knew each other.

The son Jacques (the discussed author) is called a diplomat in Hungary, also in Egypt and in the Levante. In Hungary as a young man he was called Vice-Consul, likely presenting his father. The Levante and Cairo belonged to the Ottoman Empire, but I'm not sure, when he had this function.

It was difficult to find good information. In the earlier research (2012)
I produced a timeline, which I give as it is.

Sources:
I'd some luck and found a longer biography of Jacques Grasset Saint-Sauveur
http://cdlm.revues.org/index3933.html

Biography of his father André Grasset Saint-Sauveur:
http://www.biographi.ca/009004-119.0...=1921&terms=de

Biography of his brother André Grasset Saint-Sauveur:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3...-Sauveur,_fils

Together there's now some better impression, what might have happened. The biographies are quoted in the following Time Table.

Quote:
Attempt of a Time Table of the Grasset St.-Sauveur family:

*************

Father

1724
(Father) André Grasset Saint-Sauveur is born in Montpellier. Montpellier had a harbour and was traditionally connected to traffic and trade and journeys on the sea.

10 May 1747
André sailed on a warship as secretary of the new governor general (La Jonquière or "Taffanel") of New France to Canada.
http://www.biographi.ca/009004-119.01-e.php?id_nbr=1672
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques...Jonqui%C3%A8re
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques...Jonqui%C3%A8re
The convoy of 39 ships was attacked after 4 days by 14 English ships which much more canons and La Jonquiere and also André became prisoners. The trading ships could escape, and the French war ships resigned after 5 days fight. They were freed with the peace of Aachen in 1748. La Jonquière landed in Quebec at 17 August 1749.

1 May 1750
Grasset got an "appointment as councillor of the Conseil Supérieur of Quebec", but Grasset had settled in Montreal and didn't claim the post. But he stayed a secretary till 1752.

October 1752
He married Anne-Marie, daughter of Charles Nolan Larmaque ...
http://www.biographi.ca/009004-119.01-e.php?id_nbr=1560
.. and joined the business of his father-in-law. Grasset had already proven, that he might be a clever merchant himself, trading with Indians. The father-in-law died with debts, the wife died in a birth.

1755
A new gouvernor Louis-Philippe de Rigaud, Marquis de Vaudreuil ...
http://www.biographi.ca/009004-119.0...p?&id_nbr=1621
... renewed the installation od Grasset as "Secretary" and arranged the marriage to a daughter of a rich merchant in Montreal, Jacques Quesnel Fonblanche. But Grasset had his focus on his own business, having two shops in Montreal. His new wife, though young, was well introduced in the business with Indians by her father.

1756 It starts the seven years war in Germany. The war has also resonances in Canada., where English fight against French.

1757
(Son I) Jacques Grasset Saint-Sauveur was born.
1758
(Son II) André Grasset Saint-Sauveur was born.

1759
Battle of Quebec with unlucky result for the French troops.
http://www.britishbattles.com/battle-of-quebec.htm

1760
The governor returned to France. Grasset had been part of the administration.

1761-1763
It developed the "affaire du Canada" ...
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_du_Canada
... and between many others also Grasset was accused in December 1763 (totally there were 55 accusations in the case). The earlier governor was acquitted in 1763.

1763
New France in Canada changed officially from French rule to British rule in this year, mainly due to an unlucky outcome of the war.

Nov. 1764
Grasset returned to France with wife and 5 small children and his 83-years-old father-in-law to meet the accusations.
He appeared at court in January 1764 and his case was dropped in April 1764, with the court not able to prove him guilty.
Jacques Grasset Saint-Sauvur was six years old, when he left Canada. Should one suspect, that his later pictures of Canadian Indians should likely go back to reports or paintings of his mother or his father?

1767
"According to the author of the “Mémoire du Canada,” Grasset had amassed 1,900,000 livres during his stay in Canada. Yet, seven years after the conquest, in August 1767 Grasset claimed that his entire fortune consisted of 317,292 livres in bills of exchange that he had acquired honestly through his two advantageous marriages and his trading activities."

1772 - 1781
The father is appointed as French consul in Trieste, and the post is active till 1781. The first books of son Jacques later show costumes of Italy, the region around Trieste and the Levant. Likely Jacques accompanied diplomatic travels of his father. He later claimed the title of Vice-Consul of Hungary and the Levant (1782 he was 25 years old, so he was a rather young Vice-Consul).
" .... his financial situation had become so bad that he had to put his family in the care of a religious community because he lacked the means to support them. In May 1778 his wife wrote to the minister of Foreign Affairs, the Comte de Vergennes, that as all her resources were exhausted she was “reduced to the most dire want.” In 1794, André Grasset de Saint-Sauveur died in Paris at the Hôpital des Incurables, a completely ruined man."
???? ... this passage looks like drawn from common ambassador-difficulties and not naturally presents the correct situation. The son Jacques was able to produce books for an exclusive market after his time in Trieste, which shouldn't have been a sign, that the family was exhausted of all resources.

*************

Sons

1764 - 1772 ?
"Après des études chez les jésuites de Sainte-Barbe, à Paris, Jacques s’initie au métier et travaille « pendant dix ans comme vice-consul à la commission, aux ordres de son père." This seems to say, that Grasset (and likely also his brother André) got education from the Jesuits in Paris till 1772. And:

1772 - 1782
... he helps his father in his diplomatic missions. "Après Trieste, les Grasset eurent des postes à Zante et à Corfou (le cadet, lui, passera ensuite dans les îles Baléares)". Possibly also André helps his father.
Zante - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakynthos
Corfou - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corfu
Baleares - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balearic_Islands
I understand, that either Jacques or André were (for some time) at the Balearic islands. In a later publication (1801-1805) the brother André was published posthumous with texts about the Balearic islands, in a published text of 1799 given to André (I saw only a version with text, no pictures) he wrote very similar texts to the books written by Jacques. The author of the book about the Balearic Islands claims, that he has studied the region in a period of 6 years (which will not fit with the life description of Jacques). But the time 1801-1805 will also not fit, cause André was dead then.
The likely truth will be, that Jacques (or somebody else ?) used the older texts of the younger brother André in 1805. For the 1799 edition by André we have the title "Voyage historique, littéraire, et pittoresque dans les îles et possessions ci-devant vénitiennes du Levant; savoir: Corfou, Paxo, Bucintro, Parga, Prevesa, Vonizza, Sainte-Maure, Thiaqui, Céphalonie, Zante, Strophades, Cérigo et Cérigotte." Corfou and Zante are mentioned, so one likely has to assume, that both brothers helped their father in 1772-1781 and both worked together on "location descriptions" during their travels. Andre disappeared then (between 1782-1792) for 6 years to the Balearic/Pythusian Islands, a time, in which Jacques started to publish in Paris under the guidance of Maréchal.

Zante and Corfou were Venetian islands near the Western Greek coast, which likely served for embassy contacts to the Ottoman Empire, which reigned in most of the Balkan territory in the time.

An edition of 1788 ... called 2nd volume ...
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b86220511
... gives the impression, that a good portion of the first part was based on earlier "personal journeys". However, that all pictures were taken at the given locations is hardly believable. The "journey" starts in Malta and goes then through "Italy" to the region of Trieste and it's surrounding. Generally it seems possible, that Jacques (also André ?) served as Vice-Consul (as representative of his father) and had opportunity to some longer journeys. The diplomatic post from Paris to Constantinople likely often needed reliable messengers.

1782/86
? the first publication ? ... "La Belle Captive, ou Histoire véritable du naufrage & de la captivité de Mlle Adeline, comtesse de St-Fargel, âgée de 16 ans, dans une des parties du royaume d’Alger, en 1782", Paris, 1786
It got a critique at January 1786: ... http://books.google.de/books?id=oTgT...itable&f=false
The story has erotic elements ... and this kind of story plot is later repeated, for instance with "Hortense, ou la Jolie Courtisanne, sa vie privée dans Paris, ses aventures tragiques avec le nègre Zéphire dans les déserts de l’Amérique" (1796). Jacques Grasset Saint-Sauveur knew about the publishing laws of "sex sells". In his journey literature we find many paintings of female persons with open breasts. And in the Petit Oracle des Dames we find at about 15 of 42 cards "naked persons".





Late 1780s:

In the earliest productions there was a cooperation between Jacques Grasset Saint-Sauveur and Sylvain Maréchal ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvain_Mar%C3%A9chal
... a "French essayist, poet, philosopher, and, as a political theorist, precursor of utopian socialism and communism (his views on a Golden age society are occasionally described also as utopian anarchism)". Marèchal was seven years older than Grasset and had first publication experience already in 1770. It seems plausible, that Marèchal guided the young author Grasset to some more experience in matters of publication.

The engraver Claude-Louis Desrais (1746 ? - 1816) ...
https://www.google.com/search?q=clau...J4HN0QXd6IS5CQ
... is mentioned in context of the first productions of Jacques Grasset in the late 1780s. He is called a pupil of Francesco Casanova. Francesco Casanova ...
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Casanova
.. was the brother of Giacomo Casanova. "Quant au profil marqué de l’aventurier des Lettres chez Grasset, je compte aussi étudier son séjour à Trieste, dans les années 1772-1781, séjour durant lequel la famille Grasset aurait fréquenté nul autre que Casanova, selon René Dollot" ... it's said, that there was a contact between the Grasset family and Giacomo Casanova in their time in Trieste.

Another cooperator of the early time (last connection to Grasset in 1792) was a person Jean Francois Cornu. A person Jean Francois Cornu de la Poype (with humble origin, possibly the same person) became major general in 1793 and distinguished himself at the siege of Toulon 1793 (another less important general in this action was Naopoleon Bonaparte, who had just arrived from Corsica; Napoleon was made Brigadier admiral after the siege). Jean Francois Cornu, the real cooperator, is called an "homme de loi" (possibly an advocat), so he's likely NOT the general (but one doesn't know this for sure).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Fr...nu_de_La_Poype
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Toulon

September 1792
Brother André (meanwhile member of a religious order) died (with many others) in a massacre connected to the French revolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_Massacres
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_de_Septembre
Later - in 1926 - André was (cause his death as a martyr) beatified by Pope Pius XI. A school in Canada took then the name "Collège André Grasset" in 1927.

1793
DDD give the date "1793 ?" as a suspicion for a production of a deck with 33 cards very similar to the Petit Etteilla from the "citoyen St-Sauveur" with the address "rue Nicaise, Maison de la section des Tuileries, à Paris". In my opinion this seems more probable for the time 1795-1797, when Grasset made a lot of productions. I saw that "c[itoyen]ne Saint-Sauveur" was still used in a work of 1797.


1794
The father André died under poor conditions (?)

1795 - 1797
Lots of publications from the side of Jacques Grasset St.-Sauveur. Although "father André dies under poor conditions", Jacques Grasset behaves as somebody, who has enough money to invest, possibly as a heir with good financial conditions.
His cooperators are L.F. Labrousse (from Bordeaux) and J. Laroque.
Jacques Grasset has definitely the address "rue Nicaise, Maison de la section des Tuileries, à Paris" in 1796
(confirmation through one of his books).

http://books.google.de/books?id=Ej4T...page&q&f=false

1797
DDD records the small book "Les tireur de cartes ou le cartonomancien", which compiles various "divination with cards" material, between them a text with strong similarities to a text produced by Etteilla in the year 1791, "L'art de lire dans les cartes". The 1797 book appears with the address "rue Nicaise, Maison de la section des Tuileries, à Paris", which already appeared as the address of "citoyen St-Sauveur", who made a playing card deck very similar to Petit Etteilla (possibly 1793). From the same address, also 1797, a production is recorded of the "Petit Escamoteur" (with "Deroy"). This book in another edition is merged with a the Etteilla text", made by "Pegoreau", called "Le Bohemién (year VI, so c. 1798).
As address of a St-Sauveur book is given (same year) an address in Bordeaux. Already earlier printer of Bordeaux were used by Saint-Sauveur, he also wrote about the region of Bordeaux.

In 1799 and 1805
Publication of works of his brother André

1799
Sauveur offers books in Paris from the address: rue Coq-Heron, maison de France

Jan. 1800: The address "Chez auteur, rue Coq-Heron, maison de France" announces "Le Petit Oracle des Dames"

1802
Fleischer reports ...
http://books.google.de/books?id=UdhI...ancien&f=false

The "Petit Oracle des Dames" is now offered by Gueffier. Two other productions - likely ALSO from the author of the Petit Oracles -, the "Petit Necromancien" and "Petit Horoscope des Dames" with 42 cards, are announced from an address in Bordeaux.

1805/06
Archives de l'honneur, ou notices sur la vie militaire des generaux de brigade, adjudans-commandans ... qui par leurs belles actions se sont illustres, par F. Babié ... et J. G. St.-Sauveur, etc.

1808
Acteurs et actrices celebres qui se sont illustres sur les trois grands theatres de Paris.
by Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur

1810
Death of Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huck View Post
Kwaw spoke of a deck in the British Museum, which has also relations to POdD and to the 66-cards divination deck. Meanwhile it seems clear, that this deck did run under the name Petit Necromancien or Nouvel Eteila.

British Museum: 36 cards
http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...=eteila&page=1
Following inquiries by myself to Thierry Depaulis, Phillipa Plock & the Waddeson Manor curators, the deck at the British Museum has now been positively identified as being the same as:

Le Nouvel Eteila, ou Petit necromancien. Le Petit Oracle des Dames
Primary Maker unknown
Secondary Maker: Mme. Finet. Rue de l’Arbre-sec, No.26, Paris
First definite notice we have of it is in 1820, from Robert from the same address (Rue de l’Arbre-sec, No. 26, Paris)
There is a later note of Mme. Finet, 1824

However, the design and engraving has been variously dated as being late 18th or early 19th century - if so, some connection with Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur is considered possible. Noting especially that both this deck and the Saint-Sauveur PODD draw elements from the c.1790 "Jeu divinatoire révolutionnaire".

A copy of the deck (as an uncut sheet) is in the Rothschild Collection, as Cataloged by Phillipa Plock (Waddesdon Manor – Printed Board Games Collection, August 2009).

[quote]

Nouvelle Eteila, ou le petit Nécromancien, Le petit oracle des dames

Divinatory card game with standard piquet pack and four extra cards derived from the Tarot of Etteilla (Jean-Baptiste Alliette). The sheet is divided into 36 rectangles arranged in rows with smaller reserves for the suits on the right-hand side. At lower right, there is a blank reserve for the shop name to be written in. The image is etched and hand-coloured, the text is engraved.

This is a sheet of fortune telling cards using some of the imagery devised by Etteilla. The pack here is a standard French piquet pack of 32 cards Ace, King, Queen, Jack, 10, 9, 8, 7, of the usual four French suits but with four extra Ettellia cards. Decker, Depaulis and Dummett (1996) refer to a 36 card pack produced by Madame Finet in about 1800 under the title “le Petit Oracle des Dames”, which is the same game.

Depaulis (correspondence 18 June 2009) now dates the game slightly later, circa 1810, and notes that there are suit signs. The game was included in the exhibition of 1989 “Les cartes de la Révolution”, with the earlier date. Depaulis notes that the game draws on another, earlier and somewhat mysterious set of cards, which he called “Jeu politico-divinatoire” (n° 99 in the 1989 “Les cartes de la Révolution” catalogue), which is in the BnF and bears the APR (“Avec Privilège du Roi”) imprint so it must date from around 1790. A very similar game was produced circa 1810 by Robert, see Decker, Depaulis and Dummett (1996). There are copies of Mme Finet’s sheet in the Cary collection of playing cards (Yale University Library). They are catalogued as FRA 194 and FRA sheet 176. I am grateful to Thierry Depaulis for this information.[end quote]

Thierry Depaulis (correspondence 19th December, 2015) now considers that the original design and engravings appear to be earlier, c. late 18th century. But notes that the only dates we positively have are 1820 (re: Robert) and 1824 (re: Mme. Finet).

Re: for “Jeu politico-divinatoire” (n° 99 in the 1989 “Les cartes de la Révolution” catalogue)

See "Jeu divinatoire révolutionnaire" at the BnF

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv...planchecontact


Ronald Decker,Thierry Depaulis and Michael Dummett,’’A Wicked
Pack of Cards: The Origins of the Occult Tarot’’, New York, 1996; p. 143;
discusses another copy of the game.

Thierry Depaulis, ‘‘Les cartes de la Révolution: cartes à jouer et
propagande’’, Issy-les-Moulineaux, 1989; n°100; discusses another copy of
the game.

William B. Keller, ‘‘A catalogue of the Cary collection of playing cards in
the Yale University Library’’, New Haven, 1981; discusses another copy of
the game

The game is also cataloged in "Le cabinet des estampes de la Bibliothèque nationale : guide du lecteur et du visiteur, catalogue général et raisonné des collections qui y sont conservées", by Bouchot, Henri, 1849-1906. However, I find no record of it in the current Bibliotheque nationale Francaise online database.

There are notices of a fortune-telling deck c.1802 or earlier called "Petit Necromancien", however without further description cannot determine if or not it bears any relation to the Finet/Robert. (See the Fleisher reference in Huck's post above.)

Kwaw

edited to add: Note to Huck, not only am I colour blind, but am currently going blind in one eye, your text in red is VERY difficult for me to read - I have to highlight it to change the colour.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw View Post
edited to add: Note to Huck, not only am I colour blind, but am currently going blind in one eye, your text in red is VERY difficult for me to read - I have to highlight it to change the colour.
Sorry to read that about your eyes. I'd changed the red text to a sort of yellow, maybe that's better.

At another place ...
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=122602&page=39
... the idea, that Jacques Grasset Saint-Sauveur had been "author" or "organizer of the production" of the Petit Oracle des Dames, has been confirmed.

The interesting question is now, if there had been an earlier connection to the persons, which produced or organized the production of the 66-card divination deck 1790.
The relations between this deck and PODD and Nouvel Eteila and Etteilla 78-cards - Tarot deck and a Russian deck of 1825 are demonstrated recently in the thread "Nouvel Etteilla"
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=248830
... in the thread connected to the 66-card deck ..
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=248520

The suspicion of an authorship of this deck is given to a circle of "persons from Grenoble", from which one also had an early connection to Etteilla (Joubert de la Salette, researched already by DDD, pages 103, 109-112).

The identification of this circle took place at (I shorten the conversation) ...

Kwaw detected the deck (66-cards), which was already searched 3 years earlier ..
Quote:
You can view all 66 cards here:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv...planchecontact
Thread " Petit Oracles de les dames, c. 1807", post #46 ff.

I reacted (same place) with ...
Quote:
A strange deck.

The curious map (card No. 66) refers to a region near the Black Sea, which was involved in a war between Osmans and Russia (the Danube river is mentioned and "bizantia") ... Russo–Turkish War of 1787–1792 ...
... Depaulis had dated the deck to c. 1790.
Then I opened the thread "66-card divination deck c. 1790 France " for a better overview of the cards.
http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=248520

There Philippe brought up the name Guignard (a man from Grenoble, as it evolved later)
Quote:
This deck is truly a gem.
There is some theatricality, operatic gestures in certain cards.
48 L'impérieuse (ma vollontée fait ma loix suprême). Of course it's the tiers-état (ma volonté fait la loi suprême) but it could be a lovely opera singer (ma volonté fait ma voix suprême)
38 l'éventail
40 the Agnès of Molière with her little cat
62 Sémiramis (very operatic) and all the mytological characters recurring in the operas.

It reminds me that Guignard de Saint-Priest, as secrétaire de la Maison du Roi then Ministre de l'Intérieur, was in charge of the Menus-Plaisirs du Roi. He intended to build a new Opera house Rue Saint-Nicaise, where the storerooms and workshops of the Opera of the Porte Saint-Martin and the Tuileries's stables were at that time.
Philippe added then in the PODD thread
Quote:
The card 66 is the most interesting and gives the key of the deck I think
It's a map of the battles during the 6th war between Russia and Turkey (1768-1774)
Chotczim = Khotin 1769
Kaminice = Kamenets podol'sk 1769
Iessi = Jassy 1769
Bender = Bender 1770
The appearance of this distant and rather neglected conflict in a french deck reveals the man and the family for whom the deck was created, as the only ones able to understand this card 66.
I'll give the name of this man in a next post if no one finds it. A clue : he's represented by a card and it's not Louis XVI.
With that the attention on card 66 was given to an earlier Turco-Russian war 1768-74.

MikeH contributed:
Quote:
However this is a French deck. There, I see three people who would have known details about the Turkish war: Foreign Minister Choiseul, the early ambassador to Istanbul Charles Gravier, and his replacement The Comte de Saint-Priest. He was a liberal royalist who served as Minister of the Interior for Louis XVI from August 1790 until Jan. 1791.

Given your hints, Philippe, my guess would be Saint-Priest, and so a deck done in the second half of 1790. A puzzling thing to me is why these defeats suffered by an ally of the French would be commemorated on a card. Gravier had been against Turkey's involvement in war with the Russians, and so might have had some satisfaction from Turkey's defeat in what followed. However he was Foreign Minister (before and after Choiseul), not in the deck, and he died in 1787.
The jump back from the Russian war (1768-74) back to 1790 appeared through the context, that Guignard had been 17 years (1768-85) an ambassador in Constantinople.

Philippe agreed with ...
Quote:
And the winner is : MikeH !!!!

François-Emmanuel Guignard de Saint-Priest that we can see on the third card, just after Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette. He was Secrétaire d'Etat à la Maison du Roi (1789-1790) renamed into Ministre de l'Intérieur (the first in France) in 1789-1791. The man wrote memoirs and he had no inclination for occult matters.
Philippe detected then a wedding document of the year 1794 (all in the PODD thread)
Quote:
It's a marriage in Grenoble the 15 Messidor an II (3rd of July 1794).

The groom : Joseph Marie de Barral Marquis de Montferrat is Guignard de Saint-Priest's cousin (his father is the brother of Guignard's mother)

The bride : Bibiane (?) Joubert de la Salette is the sister of Pierre-Joseph Joubert de la Salette 1743-1833 general, musicologist, Etteilla's pupil and author of the Dictionnaire synonimique du Livre de Thot, précédé d’un discours préliminaire, par un membre de la Société des interprètes de cet ouvrage 1791
and
Quote:
The most important here is that a link exists between Guignard and Etteilla [through Joubert de la Salette
This brought de la Salette into the considerations and a link between a clique of the nobility of Genoble to the circle of Etteilla. The city of Grenoble had special attention in the year 1788 as the scene of a revolutionary action before the all-changing attack on the Bastille (July 1789) in Paris later. The action became known as the "Day of the Tiles" or "Journee de Tuiles". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Tiles

1788 is also year, when Etteilla produced the Etteilla Tarot deck and when Joubert de la Salette got contact to Etteilla.

Philippe pointed also to a 42-cards Russian divination deck in Moscow 1825, with very strong similarities to the 66-card divination deck.
(shown in the thread to the 66-cards deck)
In his years after 1791 Guignard had many relations to the developments in Russia.

********

Meanwhile Kwaw had focussed on the Nouvel Etteilla and had brought up the news, that Depaulis had accepted Jacques Grasset Saint-Sauveur as author of the Petit Oracle des Dames.
Through this channel of information came Depaulis' report about another document from the year 1796:
Quote:
Petit oracle des dames / Petit Etteilla, jeu de 42 cartes, avec livret Tableaux mobiles des jeux de fortune, ou l'Art de lire dans l'avenir avec sûreté par le rapprochement des événemens qui démontrent sans réplique l'art chronomancique. A Paris, Chez l'Auteur, rue Nicaise Nr. 513. An cinquième / 1797
(no info added about the source)
Earlier we had the earliest confirmation for the PODD for January 1800, so this means a big progress.

Other attention was also given to a deck, which exists in the British Museum, which confirms, that Grasset Saint-Sauveur participated in the production of decks with 33 cards of the Petit Etteilla already in the year 1797, possibly already in 1796.
(this happened in the thread " Etteilla Timeline and Etteilla card Variants - background", around the pages 38/39).
Other attention was given to a deck, which was created in 1820 with motifs of Sauveur.
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/...%89trangers%27

With all that we have more or less reliable data, that Sauveur was active with playing card production since 1796/97, beside his many activities of book productions with many pictures.
It's a not answered question, to which degree Sauveur participated himself as engraver. For his books often one or more engravers are added by name. For the Sauveur productions since 1796 the engraver "Labrousse" seems to dominate. He should have the strong suspicion to be "the true engraver" of the playing card productions. Unluckily there's not much known for this man.

*********
*********

RESEARCH before 1796

In this situation of research it's of interest to know, if Grasset Saint-Sauveur had contact to either the Grenoble circle or to the Etteilla circle before 1796. I found something to this question.

Yesterday I wrote as a summary:

Quote:
Sauveur participated in a project 1784-1788, "Costumes Civils actuels de tous les Peuples connus." This project was dedicated to "Charles-Eugene-Gabriel Delacroix, Maréchal de Castries, Comte d'Alais, premier Baron des Etats du Languedoc, Ministre d'Etat" ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charle...el_de_La_Croix
... who had the function "Secretary of State of the Navy" (secrétaire d'État à la marine) from 1780-1787 (a very high position, followers of him are presented in the wiki-biography of ministre l'linterieure Guignard as ministre colleagues).

The family Delacroix came from Montpellier (as the family of Grasset Saint Sauveur).

The related project ...
http://gallica.bnf.fr/services/engin...#resultat-id-4
... was very expensive, 4 big books with many high-quality pictures presenting persons of 4 continents (Europe, Asia, Africa, America).
It makes logic to assume, that the navy sponsored the product. How should the relative young Sauveur get descriptions of foreign people and the necessary information about them? Good connections to the French navy would explain that.

The "ministre de la guerre", card 4 in the 66-cards-deck beside card 3, "ministre l'interieure", should have been Jean-Frédéric de La Tour du Pin Gouvernet ...
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-F..._Pin_Gouvernet
... another man from Grenoble.
"Il est ministre de la Guerre du 4 août 1789 au 16 novembre 1790", roughly the same time, when Guignard had been "ministre l'interieure".

The "ministre des finances" (card 54 in the deck) should be naturally Jacques Necker, the most important French politician in the period. He's called a friend of Delacroix, the man, to whom the book project was dedicated.

So there is a closer connection given between the young Sauveur and the circle of "important men" in Grenoble. It wasn't very difficult to find.

At the project participated beside two graveurs, an editor and a redacteur also Claude-Louis Desrais as dessinateur (illustrator) ... who likely developed the motifs.
http://book-graphics.blogspot.de/201...-francais.html
(many pictures of another work, in which Desrais participated)


A little bit more info to the case now:

3 ministres appear in the 66-cards deck ...

card No. 3: ministre l'interieure
card No. 4: ministre de la guerre
card No 53: ministre des finances

... and a very curious card 64, which showed the map of the Turco-Russian war of 1768-1774
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-...768%E2%80%9374)

This latter card and the 3 minestre-cards caused the suspicion of local researchers (Philippe, MikeH and me, Huck), that the person François-Emmanuel Guignard, comte de Saint-Priest, had been relevant for this deck.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C...e_Saint-Priest
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C...e_Saint-Priest

Guignard had been French ambassador in Constantinople from 1768-1785 (which confirmed a personal strong connection to the Turco-Russian war 1768-1774).

English wiki states:
"In 1788, after a few months spent at the court of The Hague, he joined the ministry of Jacques Necker as a minister without portfolio. He was one of three liberals dismissed from their posts when the conservative intrigues of the comte d'Artois (the king's youngest brother) and the duchesse de Polignac reached a climax during the second week of July 1789."

French wiki gives the info this way:
"Il intègre le gouvernement en décembre 1788, devenant ministre sans portefeuille. Le conseil était alors composé du duc de Nivernois (1), du comte de Montmorin (2), du comte de la Luzerne (3), de Necker (4) en tant que ministre des finances et Michel Bouvard de Fourqueux(5)."

(1) ... "duc de Nivernoise"
= Louis-Jules Mancini-Mazarini
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_...ncini_Mazarini
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-...ncini-Mazarini
called "minestre d'etat", English wiki states an important function between 1787 and 1789 (likely he lost his function with the attack on the Bastille.

(2) ... "comte de Montmorin"
= Armand Marc de Montmorin Saint-Hérem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand...e_de_Montmorin
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand...int-H%C3%A9rem
Ministre des Affaires étrangères since 1784, then Secrétaire d'État à la Marine (Secretary of State of the Navy) from 25 August till 24th of December, then "gouverneur général des Isles sous le vent". He lost this position at 12 of July 1989 and got it again 2 days later at 14th of July.
For the Saint-Sauveur question it's of importance, that he worked as Secrétaire d'État à la Marine (French navy).

(3) = César Henri Guillaume de La Luzerne, seigneur de Beuzeville et de Rilly, baron de Chambon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A..._de_La_Luzerne
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A..._de_La_Luzerne
had twice the function "Secretary of State of the Navy" (24 December 1787 to 13 July 1789, then from 16 July 1789 to 26 October 1790)
Again: For the Saint-Sauveur question it's of importance, that he worked as Secrétaire d'État à la Marine (French navy)

(4) ... "Necker"
= Jacques Necker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Necker
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Necker
"ministre de finances", installed as directeur général du Trésor royal in 1776, then ministre des finances till May 1781. Chief ministre of the king 25 June 1788 – 11 July 1789, when the Comte of Artois caused a scandal, which led to the attack on the Bastille. Reinstalled at 16 July 1989 till 4 September 1790.
The most important politician of that time, probably the ministre des finances on the card No. 54.
Necker had his origin in the city of Geneve, which isn't very far from Grenoble.

(5) ... Michel Bouvard de Fourqueux
= ministre de finances till April 1989 (he died then, before the Bastille action)

The two "Secrétaire d'État à la Marine" (2) and (3) are of importance, cause they were followers in function of Charles-Eugene-Gabriel Delacroix, to whom the work of Grasset Saint-Sauveur 1784-88 was dedicated. Since Delacroix had retired in 1787, these were naturally the men to which Sauveur took contact to to prolong the (probable) sponsorship for his work.

A "ministre de la guerre" is not noted by the wiki article as close contacts to Guignard. But a "ministre de la guerre" existed ...

Secrétaires d'État de la Guerre (1589-1791)
...
30 novembre 1788 - 13 juillet 1789 : Louis Pierre de Chastenet, comte de Puységur
13 juillet 1789 - 16 juillet 1789 : Victor François de Broglie
4 août 1789 - 16 novembre 1790 : Jean-Frédéric de La Tour du Pin Gouvernet
16 novembre 1790 - 7 décembre 1791 : Louis Le Bègue Duportail

Ministres de la Guerre (since 1791)
7 décembre 1791 - 9 mars 1792 : Louis Marie Narbonne Lara, comte de Narbonne-Lara
...

The function had changed its title, just in the time, which interests us, at least according ...
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_...a_D%C3%A9fense

In French wiki-articles I found, that Louis Le Bègue Duportail and Jean-Frédéric de La Tour (both before December 1791) also were addressed as Ministres de la Guerre (well, not a guarantee, that they were called so in their active time).

We have, that Guignard got the new title Ministre l'interieure ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ters_of_France
... at 7 August 1790 and somehow this gives a mark for the dating of the deck ... possibly. He was the first, who got the title. But ... we don't know, if the rather obviously handwritten names were already on the extant deck, when the deck was produced. Easily the notes might be some years or even many years later.
If Guignard or somebody else from the political clique in Grenoble influenced the deck, the solution for the "ministre de la guerre" on the card would be "Jean-Frédéric de La Tour du Pin Gouvernet", cause he was most enduring in this function in the time, when Guignard was ministre and additional to that he also was a man from Grenoble, just about 8 year older (*1727, same birth year as Charles-Eugene-Gabriel Delacroix) than Guignard (*1935).

**********

MATERIAL
... parts from http://gallica.bnf.fr/services/engin...#resultat-id-4

Book description ...

Quote:
Costumes Civils actuels de tous les Peuples connus.
Material description : 306 est. : eau-forte, outils, colorié à main levée
Note : Technique de l'image : estampe. - eau-forte. - gravure aux outils
Note : L'exemplaire des Imprimés a été souscrit le 31 mars 1784. 4 tomes et 306 estampes. Privilége du Roi accordé à Grasset le 12 mars 1784, avec l'approbation du Garde des Sceaux. L'exemplaire des Estampes comporte 2 pages de titres l'une 1784, l'autre 1788. En 1788, la gravure comporte 2 oiseaux sur une branche. Cette édition comprend 283 estampes. Dans l'exemplaire des Estampes, nous trouvons 2 grands dessins au lavis de Grasset qui sont gravés par Mixelle à l'aquatinte. Cet exemplaire est classé géographiquement, alors que celui des Imprimés est classé alphabétiquement. Les estampes sur la France ne sont pas signées. Cet ouvrage a un but éducatif et encyclopédique. Annonce dans le Journal de Paris de 1784 à 1787. Cet Ouvrage est dédié à Monseigneur Charles-Eugene-Gabriel Delacroix, Maréchal de Castries, Comte d'Alais, premier Baron des Etats du Languedoc, Ministre d'Etat. Autre exemplaire à la Bibliothéque Mazarine Existence d'une seconde édition en 1788, comportant 4 vol., in-8. Annonce dans le Journal Général de France: le 17 mars 1785. Annonce dans le Journal de la Librairie: de 1784 à 1787. Annonce dans la Gazette de France en 1786.
Plusieurs planches portent les signatures : "J.G. de S. Sauveur inv. Mixelle sculp.". D'autres ont été dessinées par Desrais et gravées par Mixelle. la majorité des planches ne sont pas signées. Au tome II, on trouve les signatures : "J.G. de S. Sauveur inv. et direx. Desrais del. Mixelle sculp.". Au tome III : J. G. St Sauveur inv. et Direx. Ridé sculp."
Sources : Inventaire du fonds français, graveurs du XVIIIe siècle nationale, Tome X, Gaugain-Gravelot / par Michèle Hébert,... Edmond Pognon,... et Yves Bruand,... ; avec la collab. de Yves Sjöberg. Paris, 1968, Grasset de Saint-Sauveur, n° 3
Sources : Guide de l'amateur de livres à gravures du XVIIIe siècle / Henri Cohen, 6e éd., Paris, 1912, col. 677
Sources : Bibliographie générale du costume et de la mode / René Colas, Paris, 1933, N° 1289, 1290, 1291
Edition : Paris : Pavard , [1784-1788]
Graveur : Félix Mixelle (1763-1837), Ridé (graveur, 17..-18.. )
Auteur du texte : Jacques Grasset Saint-Sauveur (1757-1810), Sylvain Maréchal (1750-1803)
Dessinateur du modèle : Claude-Louis Desrais (1746-1816), Jacques Grasset Saint-Sauveur (1757-1810)
4 digitized documents Visualize the carousel
http://data.bnf.fr/14957774/pavard/

***********

2nd title, in this case "Europe"



***********

Dedication to Charles-Eugene-Gabriel Delacroix (Europe)



***********

Text passage at the end of "Privilege du Roi" (begin of "Europe")

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Huck  Huck is offline
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Some reflections (maybe I repeat a few things, which I already said elsewhere)

Well, we have the ministre l'interieure. The handwritten notice (possibly made at a later time) is in this single case written on something, which is attached to the card (or, at least, it looks, as if it is):



It looks, as if something is behind this additional paper, perhaps another title (of Guignard). Perhaps this paper was added, when Guignard became ministre l'interieure at 7 August 1790.

Curiously the following card No. 4 is "ministre de la guerre". According the wiki list for this title the title didn't exist in 1790, but came up a year or so later ... maybe it was already used privately.
There's a man, who should be this ministre de la guerre, a man from Grenoble again, operating in this function ... since August 1789, likely with the earlier title for this function Secrétaires d'État de la Guerre

4 août 1789 - 16 novembre 1790 : Jean-Frédéric de La Tour du Pin Gouvernet

If we follow this lead, then we have a dating between 4 August 1789 and 7 August for the production of the deck (and the handwritten notes should have been added before 7 August 1790).

Necker is under clear suspicion to be No. 54 (ministre des finances), I would say. I've read, that he was a friend to Guignard, but this seems to have changed in the course of development (likely in 1790). For the time after the attack on the Bastille they probably were on the same side, I would assume. Well, Grenoble and its political clique had two important then and had likely reason to celebrate this.

A ministre likely had a lot to do in Paris and Versailles (22 km distance). Distance Paris-Lyon = 500 km, Paris-Grenoble = 600 km. It's not really plausible, that Guignard had time for such long travels, the situation wasn't without risks (there were accusations against him, French wiki knows). Maybe the biography knows more.
Nonetheless he had friends in the regions and will have received letters and possibly gifts. Possibly also the card deck, possibly as a christmas present (always a good time for playing cards).

Naturally there MUST have been a connection between Guignard and the circles of Sauveur and on the other side to the Etteilla pupils (logic demands this).

Hugand was suggested in private discussion as "living in Lyon close to the location Saint Priest (Guignard family had a chateaux there)" .... The social rank of Hugand, however, doesn't look so high in a rather big city Lyon, that everybody must have known him. It doesn't look, as if he was "very important" as a book-trader.

*********

This is a nephew of Guignard ... with quite an interesting biography.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-...d%27Antraigues
... also at ...
http://www.cairn.info/revue-napoleon...2-page-121.htm
... something about his late years in England.

A spy and a political agent for different interests.

He visited his uncle Guignard in Constantinople (1778, 25 years old) ... "happily resigned his military post in 1778. Soon after, he accompanied his uncle, François-Emmanuel Guignard, comte de Saint-Priest, the French ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, to Constantinople. Later in the year, he made an excursion to see Egypt. In 1779, he began his trip home, visiting the cities of Warsaw, Cracow and Vienna." Guignard had only once visited France between 1768 - 1785, so I've read elsewhere. This must refer to this opportunity. So - likely - this was the relative, whom Guignard knew best.
I don't know, how he was related to Guignard (son of a sister ?). The wife of Guignard worked also as a spy in Sweden in 1790s. Vergennes (Gravier) didn't allow Guignard in the order de l'esprit, suspecting him to be more Russian than something else (1774, so I've understood).

Interesting: Louis-Alexandre de_Launay, comte d'Antraigues was born in Montpellier ... as the family of Sauveur had their origin in Montpellier.

Sauveur had qualified himself as a producer of high-quality objects with good graphic. The normal way would have been, that Etteilla pupils searched somebody like him and made a business request. Sauveur agreed ... This might have happened as late as around 1796, and it wouldn't demand something unusual. Sauveur had some link to the ministres circles (proven by his production 1784-88). He might have imported to the Etteilla decks knowledge about the Guignard deck or an earlier 42-card version similar to the Moscow deck (and made the Petit Oracle des Dames from this mixing). There are not much (if any ?) of the specialized (added) Guignard card motifs in the PODD or the Nouvel Etteilla. I compared the 42 cards with the 66 cards.

http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=248520
since post #6
I gave the comment: "From the first 42 cards No. 1-42 (66-cards-deck) 39 [of the Russian 42-cards deck) meet a roughly identical motif in the extant 41 cards. The 2 ministres (No. 3 + 4) are missing (somehow logical) and the Lady with the number 38. Two cards are additional (not included)."

It's somehow clear, that the 42 deck went from France to Russia (the costume and the motifs).
Guignard had the best possible relations to Russia. It looks plausible, that Guignard or somebody from his relatives or friends brought knowledge about this (42-cards) deck to Russia and caused finally the production in Moscow. The French version (42-cards) naturally must have been older than 1825. We don't see the deck in France, and the revolution deck of 1790 is (plausibly) a single deck, which is extant from this production. So both don't show signs of a big distribution at their time. Likely not produced at Paris, but somewhere on the country in France. Lyon is a plausible place.

I've also attempted to correlate motifs of the 66-cards deck to cards, which relate to PODD or Nouvel Eteila (both likely productions of Grasset Saint-Sauveur). From the numbers 43-66 only 2 motifs (44 + 46) were really repeated:
(from http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=248830 )

***********



***********



***********

For 46 one can see, that it was already an Etteilla-motif ... but only "somehow".

***********

For the Etteilla circle we have de la Salette, related to the Guignard family. So it's not really necessary to take the point with "Hugand was living in Lyon", close to a chateaux, which belonged to the St.Priest family. Hugand possibly was dead or "in silence" since 1794. Odoucet went to the "anti-government strategy" as a printer, often in prison.

1794 in political and economical matters in France was generally a year with catastrophes, possibly Odoucet sold some of his rights and Sauveur got them. Sauveur kept himself on the side, which reigned, avoiding conflicts.

Naturally some alternative developments are possible.
Top   #4
Huck  Huck is offline
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I got another view at biographies of the Grasset Saint-Sauveur family.

LE BIENHEUREUX ANDRÉ GRASSET
DE SAINT-SAUVEUR
ET SA FAMILLE
http://collections.banq.qc.ca:81/jrn...18_01_0039.pdf

This information comes from the religious attention to the brother André Grasset, who became a martyr in 1792 and was beatified ... this resulted in a somehow negative view on the author Jacques Grasset, his brother, who produced the PODD, between many other productions with pictures.





He's called a "mystificateur", a negative expression, and he's accused of having done "tours des cartes" (my French isn't very well and I'm not sure, but it seems, that this indicates "cartomancy"; indeed Jacques Grasset produced cartomancy decks, for instance the PODD) and "escamontage" (Magic with - for instance - cards; indeed Jacques produced a book called the "Le Petit Escamonteur" in 1796) and as a 3rd scandalous behavior is noted, that he appeared as the chief of some comedians in the colonies (indeed I've read from a journey to Canada in this time, but the information was thin; it seems, that Sauveur even was active with theater plays, which I didn't know till this).

In modern Canada a "Théâtre Saint-Sauveur" exists ...
http://www.theatrestsauveur.com/hist...st-sauveur.php
... but the location "Saint-Sauveur" is nearby together with a "Mount Saint-Sauveur", and it's more plausible, that the Grasset family took the "Saint Sauveur" from the location and not that the location took the name from the family.
I found notes, that his costumes were used in theatre plays, and he surely arranged in his late years a book with portraits (not costumes) of famous persons in the theatre development, for instance Moliere.

*********

In the same text it is told of a second brother "Andre Grasset Saint Sauveur" ... (! same name as the martyr "Andre Grasset Saint Sauveur", who was killed in 1792) ... well, that's something, which a lot of biographies to Jacques Grasset missed. But it sounds to be the truth.




The author of this text had been Olivier Marault, 1886-1968, once rector of the university of Montreal (if I identify this correctly).

*************************

Further biographical material:

Les consuls de France au siècle des lumières (1715-1792)
Anne Mézin,
Peter Lang, 1998 - History - 974 pages
https://books.google.de/books?id=PEY...page&q&f=false

It has the focus on diplomatic activities; some interesting details about the father Andre, the father.
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kwaw  kwaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huck View Post
He's called a "mystificateur", a negative expression, and he's accused of having done "tours des cartes" (my French isn't very well and I'm not sure, but it seems, that this indicates "cartomancy"; indeed Jacques Grasset produced cartomancy decks, for instance the PODD) and "escamontage" (Magic with - for instance - cards; indeed Jacques produced a book called the "Le Petit Escamonteur" in 1796) and as a 3rd scandalous behavior is noted, that he appeared as the chief of some comedians in the colonies (indeed I've read from a journey to Canada in this time, but the information was thin; it seems, that Sauveur even was active with theater plays, which I didn't know till this).
I think it means he performed card and magic tricks - not that he was a cartomancer.

...Ses études terminées, il entra, lui aussi, dans la carrière diplomatique, et sut, jusqu'en 1793, vice-consul en Hongrie puis dans le Levant. Revenu en France pendant la Révolution, il exerça de 1796 à 1801, — car il fallait bien vivre, — le rôle de mystificateur, faisant des tours de cartes et d'escamotage. Ce métier lui apporta surtout des dettes et pour échapper aux créan. tien, il partit poux les colonies avec une troupe de co-médiens, dont il était le directeur. Le succès ne vint pas et il dut retourner à Paris où il se fit homme de let-tres ou compilateur. Il mourut le 3 mai 1810, laissant une vingtaine d'ouvrages...

Roughly translated:

After graduation, he also entered the diplomatic service and was, until 1793, vice-consul in Hungary and in the Levant. For income in France during the Revolution, he practiced from 1796 to 1801 - for he had to live - the role of trickster, doing card tricks and jugglery. This trade carried out mainly to escape debts and creditors. Then, he left for the colonies with a troop of comédiens, of which he was director. Success did not come however and he had to return to Paris where he became a man of letters or compiler. He died May 3, 1810, leaving twenty books...


The dating seems odd -- surely he was a man of letters and an engraver publishing or having published many books prior to 1801. His activities with the Theatre, is perhaps how he formed some business relationship with the publisher Barba?

Perhaps, in need of money and opportunist as he was, after copying the Petit Etteilla for Deroy, he had the idea of creating a deck from stock images, of his own and others - and the Finet, Geographic and POdD are three experiments in such, of which the 42 card POdD became a success...
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Huck  Huck is offline
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Huck 

Publishers have usually debts, cause, if they earn money, they invest it again. Fact is, that Sauveur was running a lot of productions especially between 1796-1801, and if he had really been down at this period, he wouldn't have been able to do so. And his productions were expensive, and he could pay for assisting graveurs. All not a sign of bad financial conditions.
And possibly he could pay for two business addresses, one in Paris close to the Louvre, and in Bordeaux close to the theatre (if this wasn't the address of Labrousse), both expensive addresses, one should assume.
He wasn't poor. Likely he reduced his work after 1800 cause he had earned enough. Less production in his late years. He didn't become very old (53 years only).

Actually the beatification of brother Andre let to the foundation of a college with his name (which still exist, founded in the late 1920s, short after the beatification.

The rector of the Montreal university had the aim to clean the name Saint Sauveur from all the nude women, whom Jacques in his career had produced, at least to keep some distance to him. Likely Jacques had been more famous than his brother Andre then, and conservative sponsors for the catholic college needed some satisfying words in this point. Andre was a Canadian nearly-saint, although he lived more than 90% of his life in France ... .-) ... collecting local saints had been a passion already in earlier times.

With the search keys "tours des cartes" I came to a cartomancy page first, but there are more pages, which use the expression for playing-card-tricks. So you may be right with this.

11 octobre 1926: beatification of Andre
07-07-1927: date of the Marchault pdf (presented by a diocese)
"Le collège est fondé en 1927, à la demande de l'archevêque de Montréal, par les prêtres de Saint-Sulpice de Montréal. Les plans du premier bâtiment sont de l'architecte montréalais Eugène Payette. Il est nommé en l'honneur du prêtre André Grasset. À l'époque, c'est le premier collège à ne recevoir que des étudiants de l'extérieur : il n'y a pas de pensionnat."
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coll%C...%C3%A9-Grasset

Actually Andre might have been one of the first for Canada ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...atholic_saints
Momentary there is a sort of Canadian Saints inflation .... :-)
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kwaw 

One definition of mystificateur is of a hoaxer or trickster, or of a man without profession who makes an art of dining out at others expense, by value of his ability to entertain. While card and magic tricks may have been a specialization of his, as a producer of cartomancy decks one can easily suspects that card-reading may have been amongst his repertoire of parlour amusements, if the biographer's description is indeed accurate.

However, as you note, the description does not match up with what we know of his involvement in the production of expensive books and prints (though many involved other publishers, such as Deroy, so perhaps the expense wasn't all his), and these biographical details are from a biased source.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huck View Post

The author of this text had been Olivier Marault, 1886-1968, once rector of the university of Montreal (if I identify this correctly).
The source seems to the Biographie universelle et portative des contemporains, ou Dictionnaire historique des hommes célèbres de toutes les nations, morts ou vivants, ec.,, 1826.

See entry for Jacques here:



https://books.google.com.tr/books?id...auveur&f=false

Quote:
Nous l’avons vu, de 1796 à 1801, admis dans diverses sociétés de Paris, pour y faire des tours de cartes et d’escamotage, et y jouer le rôle (sort à la mode à cette époque) de mystificateur. Doué d’une élocution facile et d’un assez bon masque, il se faisait passer tour à tour pour gascon, italien, anglais, médecin, sourd, etc.
We have seen, from 1796-1801, him being admitted within various societies of Paris, to do card tricks and juggling, and play the role (out in fashion at that time) of mystifying. Gifted with an easy elocution and a pretty good mask, he passed himself off/impersonated in turn as Gascon, Italian, English, physician, deaf, etc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw View Post
The source seems to the Biographie universelle et portative des contemporains, ou Dictionnaire historique des hommes célèbres de toutes les nations, morts ou vivants, ec.,, 1826.
... .-) ... you're right, that's close to have been stolen without quoting.





Would be nice, if the author had given an indication, in which colonies the troupe of comedians has been.

The other source, that I gave above, ...
https://books.google.de/books?id=PEY...page&q&f=false
... notes a meeting between Andre Grasset (the father) and Giacomo Casanova in Trieste in 1773.




In the work of 1784-88 "Costumes Civils actuels de tous les Peuples connus" (with which Jacques Grasset Saint-Sauveur established his future life-theme "costumes") the deciding cooperator seems to have been Desrais, Claude-Louis (1746-1816), a man experienced in books about costumes before. Desrais is called a pupil of Francesco Casanova, brother of Giacomo (in the autobiography of Giacomo the brother Francesco occasionally played a role).
Jacques had been 16 years in 1773.
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