3 Epées (Swords) - how may it be read?

Here is, in some ways, the first union from the masculine Ace of Swords, and the feminine depiction of the 2 Swords depicted as vesica piscis.

Three may often precede creativity, but in this case, the act itself is depicted in quite sexually oriented depiction - and for myself cannot believe that it would at any time not also have been considered such by active adults.

Threes generally may (to me at any rate) indicate that communication is necessary, so here the card may also call for an active engaged form of communication... that pleasure may also be the result is inconsequential

Attached is a Grimaud type three Sword card...

See? See? See? I knew there was sex in this card. Look at that... jmd said it (therefore it's TRUE!)... the vesical pisces - (yeah, I get it... the almond shape made by the two of swords) is the girl, and the sword is the boy -- it's chalice meets blade time... communication... communion.

I'm beginning to like the Marseille more and more.

I always think of three swords as 'one for all and all for one'. The three muskateers! In the movies (which I know is no authority!) they quarrel and banter but are always together.

It may represent a thoughtful idea that has found some direction and is being taken forward. On the other hand, there can be some confusion or even a quarrel. Its the idea in its early stages, while its still being thrown around.

I can relate this to the chalice meets blade thing too!

I can see how one could interpret the III Epees as the sexual act but similar symbolism is present in the V, the VII and the VIII. The major differences are that there are more of the "oval objects" in these and in the V and the VII the Epeess are facing a different direction. In the three, as was indicated there are flowers coming from the Epee itself , blosoming into the oval, which would indicate the pleasure of the act.

I wondered why one would see the sexual act in the three and not the two (where there are flowers instead of Epees). It seems, JMD, that the Epee represents the male organ in this instance. That does indeed seem like a very orthodox view. . What can be said? Do the flowers in the II Epees represent the flowering of attraction, or perhaps "impotence"? I am finding it hard to keep a straight face but at the same time as very serious. Maybe this could mean a relationship between two women?


I assume the Epees are still associated with the element of air. How does this fit with the sexual associations of the card?

I am curious to know a little more about the history of the pips to understand how and when they were designed. At times there may be other interpretations that could be given to the III Epees and what might some of these be, I wonder? It is hard to know outside the context of a reading.

Another difficulty I'm having right now is to do with being so imbued with the Golden Dawn Meanings for minors, it's hard to make a distinction.

Odd questions I suppose, but it is probably OK to thrash these questions out here as well. By the way, the link to the graphic is broken.

There is no doubt that the swords form a vessica pisces and therefore, what this shape means to the individual is bound to have some significance in how the cards are read, and I think, yes, perhaps they can all be read with the same symbolism in relation to sexual content. I don't see why the 2 of Swords cannot depict a relationship between two women, if that is what the reader sees.

I see the three as meaning the process of formulating plans in the mind, which then come to fruition (as I already said in the '3 of swords' thread), whether this conception takes the form of a birth of person or idea is what has to be decided in the context of the spread and question. It indicates that an important connection (which could also be seen as communication) has occurred, and therefore mental image too.

BTW - nice avatar jmd......

Moongold said:

I assume the Epees are still associated with the element of air. How does this fit with the sexual associations of the card?

Click to expand...

"I'm taking you on a trip to the sky, darling!"
(orthodox indeed, but I wouldn't complain, personally.)

Beautiful image - air and sex. I also see swords governing the WORD (as in Christ being the Word - which I see parallelled in the "I have come with a sword" verse of I forget-which gospel) - therefore communication. So in the context we are discussing: cutting through mental questioning straight to essential communication.

Another mental link: we think about sex a lot; and much of sex (even during the act) happens in the mind.

Moonbow said:

I see the three as meaning the process of formulating plans in the mind, which then come to fruition (as I already said in the '3 of swords' thread), whether this conception takes the form of a birth of person or idea is what has to be decided in the context of the spread and question. It indicates that an important connection (which could also be seen as communication) has occurred, and therefore mental image too.

Click to expand...

This would be a continuation of the sex-fertility (flowers) theme, in the mental sphere.

Helvetica said:

"I'm taking you on a trip to the sky, darling!"
(orthodox indeed, but I wouldn't complain, personally.)

Beautiful image - air and sex. I also see swords governing the WORD (as in Christ being the Word - which I see parallelled in the "I have come with a sword" verse of I forget-which gospel) - therefore communication. So in the context we are discussing: cutting through mental questioning straight to essential communication.

Another mental link: we think about sex a lot; and much of sex (even during the act) happens in the mind.

Click to expand...

I see I associate sex more wiith earth and fire. But anything is possible I guess!

By cabbalistic exegesis this card represents the impregnation of the holy spirit in the virgin womb and thus a bride of the lord, interesting in this respect that both waite and mathers attribute a nun(ie, a bride of the lord) to this card,[/i] by extension though rarely spiritual awakening, rebirth, realization of the presence of the christ within. On another level and more often than not sexual excess and folly, rape, sexual abuse, prostitution, something used and then tossed away, betrayal, idolisation of a person who may abuse your obsession, unreciprocated love, the shattering of rose tinted glasses. Loss of virginity, innocence, purity [in this connection the pierced flower head which encircles the blade could be read as deflowering], seduction, moral delinquency.

In the astrological model I use for the Marseille this card corresponds to the second decan of Virgo, ruled by Venus, which combined with the general negative impulses of the swords highlights the element in this card of sexual extreme, from celibacy to prostitution.

In terms of bringing some of these apparently contradictory elements together one needs to remember that in the popular mind nunneries were often more thought of as hotbeds of vice rather than centres of spiritual vocation, and were often nothing more than a front for a brothel. Many women became nuns not out of vocation but becuase they were younger daughters without a dowry, or had brought dishonour upon the family, engaged in liasons the family disapproved of, got pregnant outside of marriage [and this would have been considered dishonourable even if the not the woman's fault, as the result of rape], was caught in adultery or was considered to be morally delinquent.

Kwaw

The idea of the three of any suit indicating the "birthing" resulting from the union of the two's somehow plays into most of my interpretations...whether it be Christian in nature or otherwise.

Whenever I see the swords in a Tarot de Marseille, I always see the "mandorla" shape formed by the crossing swords and then, that which is within the mandorla as being "protected.

Hence, here we have a three of air/intellect, with the new "idea" or "creation" breaking out of its safety into the world. In the Hadar the sword is yellow with a red handle
red for passion and yellow for intellect.

So on a symbolical leve, a fusion of spirits...spiritually, integration, revelation.

Mental activity or stimulation.

Emotionally, a resolution or understanding (air) of a conflict. At last, an understanding breaking through an emotional situation or relationship.

Arrival of a message to clarify some information?

terri

jmd said:

Three may often precede creativity, but in this case, the act itself is depicted in quite sexually oriented depiction - and for myself cannot believe that it would at any time not also have been considered such by active adults.

Click to expand...

Going along with the analogy, we see an event, perhaps even
flagrante delicto in the Three: (!)

Must we now also consider this as occurring, or having occurred,
or reoccurring, in the Nine: ((((!))))