DoctorArcanus
Cerulean, thank you for sharing your thoughts! I don't know much about Boiardo's work. I am sure his game of tarocchi is relevant to this discussion, being the most notable direct point of contact between high poetry and tarot. It is also likely that tarot imagery can appear in many poems of the Italina Renaissence: the game was really popular at that time, especially in Northern Italy!
Thank you also for you suggestions about "Mystical Origins of the Tarot" and the Sola Busca book! I would be happy to know more about these sources!
Frank and Robert, I agree with what you write: it is very interesting to consider the symbolic interpretaions of the tarot that could be given in the early XVI century.
Ross, thank you very much for providing Kaplan's translation and above all for your observations!
I think I will have to get at least the first two volumes of the Encyclopedia. Still, I am disappointed by this translation. I think the most interesting thing is the reference to the 22 arcana, but that is completely missing from Kaplan's translation!
About who speaks first: you are right, the sonnet is ambiguous in this respect! Your Italian must be much better than my French
I think the meaning of the sonnet is clearer if we assume that love speaks first. I also think that the meaning a few verses in Kaplan's translation is not compatible with the Italian text.
In particular, the first sentence, i.e. the question by the unknown questioner, in Italian is:
Per qual giustizia, disse, a te si rese
nè Papa mai, nè s' è papessa alcuna?
Trying to be as literal as I can:
For which justice, (s)he said, no Pope nor Papesse ever surrendered (returned) to you?
"si rese" if from "rendersi" which in moder Italian is "arrendersi" (to surrender).
What is not defendable in Kaplan's translation is "returned to us". The text could be translated "returned to you", but this does not make sense to me. "A te" cannot be translated "to us".
While checking my translation, about the world "sciocco", I noticed a detail a could not manage in the first translation Love says "sciocco" (masculine) while death is defined "orrenda e bruna" (feminine).
Since in this verse it is clearly written that Love is speaking, the only explanation is that now he is telling TO HIMSELF that he is a fool...because his first answer was wrong.
Here comes the new translation:
Love (6), under whose Empire (4) many deeds
go without Time (9) and without Fortune (10),
saw ugly and dark Death (13) on a Chariot (7),
going between the people it took away from the World (21).
She asked: no Pope (5) nor Papesse (2) was ever won
by you. Do you call this Justice (8)?
He answered: Him who made the Sun (19) and the Moon (18)
defended them from my Strength (11).
What a Fool (0) I am, said Love, my Fire (16),
that can appear as an Angel (20) or as a Devil (15),
can be Tempered (14) by some others who live under my Star (17).
You are the Empress (3) of bodies. But you cannot kill hearts,
you only Suspend (12) them. You have a name of high Fame,
but you are nothing but a Trickster (1).
I found some more information (in Italian) about the author. He was a benedectine monk. About the work that contains these sonnets (Il Caos del Triperuno / The Chaos of Threeforone):
http://www.italica.rai.it/rinascimento/cento_opere/folengo_caos.htm
The Chaos is one of the most obscure and strange works of Italian literature. It brings to the eccess the allegorical tradition of the middle age. It can be read as a path involving purification, initiation and the discovery of oneself through one's different faces. The outcome is the affirmation of an authentic religiosity, far from the temptations of the world.
Thank you also for you suggestions about "Mystical Origins of the Tarot" and the Sola Busca book! I would be happy to know more about these sources!
Frank and Robert, I agree with what you write: it is very interesting to consider the symbolic interpretaions of the tarot that could be given in the early XVI century.
Ross G Caldwell said:
Ross, thank you very much for providing Kaplan's translation and above all for your observations!
I think I will have to get at least the first two volumes of the Encyclopedia. Still, I am disappointed by this translation. I think the most interesting thing is the reference to the 22 arcana, but that is completely missing from Kaplan's translation!
About who speaks first: you are right, the sonnet is ambiguous in this respect! Your Italian must be much better than my French
I think the meaning of the sonnet is clearer if we assume that love speaks first. I also think that the meaning a few verses in Kaplan's translation is not compatible with the Italian text.
In particular, the first sentence, i.e. the question by the unknown questioner, in Italian is:
Per qual giustizia, disse, a te si rese
nè Papa mai, nè s' è papessa alcuna?
Trying to be as literal as I can:
For which justice, (s)he said, no Pope nor Papesse ever surrendered (returned) to you?
"si rese" if from "rendersi" which in moder Italian is "arrendersi" (to surrender).
What is not defendable in Kaplan's translation is "returned to us". The text could be translated "returned to you", but this does not make sense to me. "A te" cannot be translated "to us".
While checking my translation, about the world "sciocco", I noticed a detail a could not manage in the first translation Love says "sciocco" (masculine) while death is defined "orrenda e bruna" (feminine).
Since in this verse it is clearly written that Love is speaking, the only explanation is that now he is telling TO HIMSELF that he is a fool...because his first answer was wrong.
Here comes the new translation:
Love (6), under whose Empire (4) many deeds
go without Time (9) and without Fortune (10),
saw ugly and dark Death (13) on a Chariot (7),
going between the people it took away from the World (21).
She asked: no Pope (5) nor Papesse (2) was ever won
by you. Do you call this Justice (8)?
He answered: Him who made the Sun (19) and the Moon (18)
defended them from my Strength (11).
What a Fool (0) I am, said Love, my Fire (16),
that can appear as an Angel (20) or as a Devil (15),
can be Tempered (14) by some others who live under my Star (17).
You are the Empress (3) of bodies. But you cannot kill hearts,
you only Suspend (12) them. You have a name of high Fame,
but you are nothing but a Trickster (1).
I found some more information (in Italian) about the author. He was a benedectine monk. About the work that contains these sonnets (Il Caos del Triperuno / The Chaos of Threeforone):
http://www.italica.rai.it/rinascimento/cento_opere/folengo_caos.htm
The Chaos is one of the most obscure and strange works of Italian literature. It brings to the eccess the allegorical tradition of the middle age. It can be read as a path involving purification, initiation and the discovery of oneself through one's different faces. The outcome is the affirmation of an authentic religiosity, far from the temptations of the world.
