Was the Dodal created by Payen?

DoctorArcanus

ihcoyc said:
It might conceivably be related to the legend of Pope Joan's pregnancy. The English word that corresponds here is "paunch," borrowed from one or another of these sources.

Ihcoyc, I like this interpreation!
Actually, La pances is being discussed also on another thread

In that thread JMD refers to something he posted three years ago:

jmd said:
With regards to La Pances, I have usually taken it to be a mispelling characteristic enough of the period with homophones, in this case, 'La Pansee' (the thought(s)/the thinking),ie, reflection. For the purposes of historical correctness, however, Pance(s) is used in some mediaeval French texts in reference to the belly (I can only think of the correctness of this coloquial term).

What is interesting, to me at any rate, is that it is used specifically with reference to the Whale's belly in which Jonas spent time... clearly, in my view, as expression of initiation. In fact, one can see initiation chambers as time spent in the belly awaiting re-birth. In that sense, Pope Joan does become significant... but only, I would venture, as symbolic of the initiator into the spiritual world.

I find the mispelling theory quite convincing (and extremely interesting). This would make of La Papesse an allegory, like Temperance, Love, etc.

Marco
 

Fulgour

The Current Consensus

Dodal 1700 Lyon
Payen 1743 Avignon
Conver 1760 Marseille
 

jmd

Quite so, and quite not so, Fulgour.

It depends on whether the Payen referred to is Jean Payen (the elder), or Jean-Pierre Payen (of another generation or two).

Jean-Payen certainly is early enough to have overlaps with Jean Dodal.