Tarot: Does it work? How?

**peeps is web slang for "people"**quoting thinbuddha

Actually, it's ethnic slang that made its way into the internet.


Not that that's got anything to do with how tarot works, of course.

This is a good discussion. I'm glad it got resurrected.

fairyhedgehog said:

If at some level you believe in a higher power and at another level you believe in psychology and archetypal imagery - well why not! Maybe those are different ways of describing the same thing.

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I did a reading to ask if there was a higher power at work in the universe and got a result that really charged me with energy and has seriously affected me. I spent yesterday having a series of insights about myself that I feel have changed me..

If any card but the tower had shown in the key position I'd have dismissed the whole thing..

A higher power and projection of archetypes don't have to cancel each other out anyway, do they? So you're right - they could be two perspectives on our reality. The archetypes reside in the unconscious and that is a higher power, as in it has far more complete knowledge than the conscious ego.

Well, as you've read, I believe that tarot works because of psychological factors. But that doesn't stop me from telling the cards "you go where you want to go" when I shuffle, and treating them as if they have been specially and accurately chosen to appear in answer to my questions! I always feel like I'm playing when I do this, but it doesn't matter. It is how it works for me.

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Well you are treating the cards as a higher power by seeking answers from them. That's got to create an effect.

We can't not be psychological but like you say, even in play, we've got to admit something beyond the conscious ego into the process. We have to let go even for a moment, even in play, so we can relate to the spread as coming from a source 'beyond' and 'above' our consciousness. Then the unconscious will reflect itself in the cards, I think. Because the cards will be its mirror. But we have got to let it appear at that mirror. Admit it somehow into the process, even in play, so long as we do it respectfully.

Jung sees the unconscious as teleological. It knows more than we have access to and wants to tell us stuff.... anything that'll help us grow, it has the will to let us know. Pretty good reason to close your eyes and trust it I reckon.

If you believe in psychic ability, you have to allow for the possibility that no matter what cards appear in your reading, the correct answers can find their path to you through the cards.... ANY cards- it doesn't have to have anything to do with particular (or even appropriate) cards showing up in certain positions.

The irony is that the thing that makes tarot work in this world view is the same thing that skeptics use as an arguement that it doesn't really work: the fact that each card is so flexible in interpretation. The underlying theme of the cards in the tarot is that every situation is in flux.... which is, of course, true. It is also true that at any given moment, every single cards specific meaning is at play in some level of our lives.

When trying to argue how tarot *has* to work by some sort of magic because "there was this reading I did where any other card would have been wrong" nobody talks about all the readings that are puzzling at first, but ultimately an answer finds it's way to you through the cards- despite the cards not seeming appropriate at first glance.

I stand firmly on this ground: there is nothing that can convince me that tarot works in a particular way- It may be something "magical" or it may be rooted in the philosophy and psychological truth found in the way the system is designed.... I can only be convinced that tarot works for certain types of inquiries, and of this I am convinced.

-tb

Ah, you put that so very well! About each card's flexibility. And I've been struggling to think of a way the cards could somehow 'connect' to the situation and the options (cards rearranging themelves when observer effect not in effect? Ha! Parallel worlds superimposing? pah! Intuition guiding the shuffle and connecting the unconscious to the cards? Pooh, not I..) are too far out for me, so I was stumped.

And yep, there are a lot of dud readings that just don't compare to the good ones, and this is what bothers me and makes me want to know how it works.

I like this idea of being able to read into any cards, any positions. And maybe getting a real answer could be to do with needing not just an answer at all, but a solution - is that what you mean by the kind of inquiry the tarot works for? Because I think that has been the key to my successful readings, and the thing lacking in my dud ones.

And why do you think we have to believe in psychic abilities for the correct answer to come through the cards - why not just projection?

Kali Kitty said:

I like this idea of being able to read into any cards, any positions. And maybe getting a real answer could be to do with needing not just an answer at all, but a solution - is that what you mean by the kind of inquiry the tarot works for?

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I think tarot works real well with "How should I approach......?" questions rather than the "What should I DO about.....?" questions. The difference for me is that the former is looking for an approach- a mindset- a philosophy to keep in mind when addressing a problem and/or searching for a solution (ie choosing what you are going to do), where the later is looking for a hard answer about what to DO. The difference is in the first scenario, YOU are choosing what to do, using the cards as a tool to sort of focus your attention in a certain way- the second scenario is asking the cards to make the decision for you.

Kali Kitty said:

And why do you think we have to believe in psychic abilities for the correct answer to come through the cards - why not just projection?

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Good point. I'm not sure what the proces involved is, but I certainly allow for the possibility of getting answers through intuition of psychic means. I am just not convinced that the cards are magically selected. I do believe that random cards can result in answers that are just as good as the answers that would come if the cards were somehow ordered in a way to specifically address the question at hand, as most people seem to believe.

However- I'm not convinced that the cards aren't being selected either. It could be that your subconscious is aware of the card ordering, and somehow makes you shuffle in a way that makes appropriate cards show up. This would seem like an incredible and unlikely answer- but why would that be any less likely than the cards somehow changing order through "magic" or spiritual intervention or........?

-tb

I have read through some of your thoughts and opinions. I don't think you will be convinced or persuaded to see things any different then you already do.

I do think that tarot is random, I don't think that there is any subconcious shuffling going on. I think that there are enough meanings and translations for each of the cards for a person to "associate" a meaning that fits. That I think is drawn from the subconcious if it is not "spelled out" so to speak.

I think a lot of Tarot, is mostly association, creative intuition, comparison, and memory.

Not really much different then studying a book, that you may have a test on later...

Is tarot Magic? It could be for some. I personally say yes. Only because I don't think (even though it is fun to try) that it can be completely explained or disected. Magic could be defined as "Characteristic of something that works although no one really understands why".

It is in an interesting topic, although I don't really think that there is a solid answer. Tarot works, and it is pretty darn cool. The only qualm I really have is with the questions that some folks may ask. Then I don't see Tarot being used effectivly for what it is, but then you would not use a hammer to clean a window either? They are tools for deep thought, meditation, and magic.

The difference is in the first scenario, YOU are choosing what to do, using the cards as a tool to sort of focus your attention in a certain way- the second scenario is asking the cards to make the decision for you.

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Good point. I prefer this approach also. I don't believe we can read the future. Only possibilities.

It could be that your subconscious is aware of the card ordering, and somehow makes you shuffle in a way that makes appropriate cards show up. This would seem like an incredible and unlikely answer- but why would that be any less likely than the cards somehow changing order through "magic" or spiritual intervention or........?

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Hm. I'm not totally closed off to this either, but I would suppose you'd need to be vigilant against other people touching your cards and rearranging them to look at them, hence disturbing the pattern that you'd presumably become one with through a process of psychic... attunement? Who knows! I like the more grounded idea that the answers come through the way we percieve the cards better. Because we'd see a single spread differently on any given day. I'm always aware of the way I 'twist' the meaning of the cards to make them answer my question. They're malleable and I think tarot reading is a craft.

Bad_Calvin said:

They are tools for deep thought, meditation, and magic.

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Plus fun and entertainment

Kali Kitty said:

Plus fun and entertainment

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yeah, sorry I forgot that part. lol It is darn fun!

Well - we have loads of new people here since the last post. Any new views ? It still seems to work for me - but I have NO idea how.