Planet Series: Saturn-Moon Relationships


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Planet Series: Saturn-Moon Relationships


This is the second of six keys to quickly interpreting the core personality found with a person's astrological chart. We have already covered Sun & Moon relationships which defined one's will, focus and ability to integrate needs and response mechanisms into one's overall vitality, image, emotional balance and ability to relate to others.

Saturn and Moon rule the winter and summer solstices, they each have their own particular symbolism. Yet when we look at these two as a pair, we discover some deep and impactful meanings in our lives. Consider some simple and basic keywords or key phrases:
** Saturn: Identity forged thru trials, a sense of past conditions, seeking to avoid pain, perceived limitations, resistance to change.
** Moon: Priamary needs, habitual responses, emotional swings, responsiveness to the environment and events around us.

Now consider briefly what happens when we merge these core meanings because the pair have a conjunction or close aspect or other powerful relationship. We have change versus don't change, we have habitual responses versus conditioned caution, we have the avoidance of painful things versus an inclination to be put into changing and hurtful experiences, we have empathetic responses to other people versus a cool attitude that tends to limit contact with others. All in all, this pair presents some strong contrasts between how we are conditioned versus how we almost anxiously react to the outside world.

This is a real challenge for each of us. As astrologers, it is imperitive that we quickly grasp these challenges which are ALWAYS IN EACH CHART in some form or other. Understanding this second key to ones personality and character not only quickly puts all of the "details" into their places, it helps us to assess how we are going to deal with this person, how we are going to get past their defensive posture and trigger their empathetic ear so that a very meaningful dialog can take place.

In interpreting a chart, when face to face with the chart's owner, having a dialog established helps both parties. It permits a few observations and questions using the six keys that I will eventually cover, it initiates the give and take of information, it avoids the need to delay making statements due to uncertainty (and the resulting astro-babble that goes with uncertainty) and it gives assurance to the client that you understand him/her and you can talk about the issues that are important to them. Sometimes very little in the way of astrology gets done -- looking at the chart, making some statements based on a trained, skillful quick assessment, will lead you straight to the heart of the matter in most cases. Following this the important thing falls into one of two areas of concern -- when will this happen or pass (and how fast), and/or what strengths should I utilize or develop so as to better deal with this issue?

Most of my readings jumpt from this first point to this last point and actually leave out all of the traditional astrological head-work that one might expect to have to do in analyzing all the planets and their aspect patterns, house positions and sign influences. Once you are skillful enough, you seldom bother doing all of the detail stuff. If and as its needed, a simple glance at only the applicable patterns will give you a quick answer that fits well and deeply with the understanding you already have gained through the processes whe have been exploring here in the Planet Series.

So, in the next thread we will start exploring Saturn-Moon phase relationships. After that we will look at Saturn's transits through the houses and how we can find growth and success through the use of Saturn's lessons. But first, lets learn about what challenges we were born into and had thrust upon us in our early lives. Each of you should check out your Saturn (anchor) to Moon (expression vehicle) phase relationship. I think you will all find this fascinating. Dave
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Saturn-Moon Phase Relationships


These phases will have the same names attached to each 45 degree segment but the meaning of each of those phases may not seem related at all to those of the Sun-Moon pairings.

PEFORMER PHASE
With the natal Moon placed between 0 and 45 degrees ahead of natal Saturn, this signifies a strong identity being formed early in life. Beliefs that are chosen or accepted early are followed automatically. Only much later will early-adopted beliefs be subject to review.

These statements are derived from the fact that Moon has just left its close contact with Saturn and will carry Saturn's rigidity, rules and conservatism for some time through ones life.

WORKER PHASE
Moon is located 45 to 90 degrees ahead of Saturn, signifying that one tends to work towards creating a new or changed identity so that the past identity can be left behind and a new future sought out.

As the Moon moves thru this phase, approaching its opening square, the emotional swings natural to the Moon begin to create tensions with Saturn's solid rock foundation. Having been constrained, the Moon now tries to flee what Saturn represents -- in this case, the past identity associated with the old man of the solar system.

ACTIVIST PHASE
Moon is located 90 to 135 degrees ahead of Saturn and signal open confrontation, a fight on several levels to drop an old identity and establish a new identity. "Identity" can mean a new personality, a different approach to interacting with others, a new life-situation or environment, or new life style.

The emotional nature seems stronger here, strong enough to struggle against rules, past habits, conservative life styles that just don't seem to fit any longer and which need to be discarded.

ANALYST PHASE
The anti-Saturn feelings keep intensifying! With the Moon 135 to 180 degrees ahead of Saturn there seems to be an outright hostility to traditions. All that was learned and practiced and honored will now be adapted to serve new needs.

By now, we have come to realize that the "Analyst" phase could also be called the "Adjustment" phase. It's just that on an emotional, gut feeling level, the term "adjustment" might not be strong enough. The term "forcing a re-arrangement" might be better in many cases.

SEEKER PHASE
The Moon in this phase is 180 to 225 degrees ahead of Saturn. Here, the Moon finds that it can't escape Saturn's strings. Saturn can't be thrown away! But one can learn from the school of hard knocks and can, indeed, remake oneself as long as you can accept the tensions of the past always needing to be dealt with.

So, the Moon finds itself reflecting Saturn's influences and is still dependent upon dealing with an old image. Moon can, however, change with some agility and Saturn perhaps only catches up with the Moon on occassion. So, does the Moon achieve its new identity or does it have to accept an acting role that still has to honor it past teacher?

BELIEVER PHASE
The Moon is now between 225 and 270 degrees ahead of Saturn, moving towards the closing square. Here, the Moon stays true to the "honest man" meaning given in the Sun-Moon Believer Phase. The Moon plays it role with great sincerity and truth to its chosen image. The life style and beliefs seem to merge.

To me, this phase seems to suggest the Moon escaping from one cage to end up in another cage.

CHANGER PHASE
Here the Moon gains its full power and indeed chooses how it can change itself. Moon is now 270 to 315 degrees ahead of Saturn. It's like the Believer Phase was like an apprenticeship program which provided the skills to achieve what it tried to achieve at the Seeker Phase. The Moon, the emotions, the empathy with the needs around you, the ability to change what needs to be changed -- all of this is possible.

At the final square, the Moon only half reflects Saturn, the rest of the Moon absorbs what isn't needed, darkens it so that it is no longer a reality, and replaces it with its own experiences and energy.

PROPHET PHASE
Well, the power of the previous phase passes as the Moon passes the 315 degree mark and moves towards its conjunction with Saturn. The Moon needs to start thinking about how it can change, manage change, resist change, become change -- all under the inner knowing that change will be neccessary and that preparations must be made. What rules, what feelings, which way to blend a new set of circumstances. Can the future be seen, or does it weigh one down. Is the anticipation worse than the actual soon-to-come experiences? Is there still time to party?

These are the phase relationships. I'll look forward to seeing how each of you find these appropriate. Dave
Leaving behind
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Dave,

Am I in the Prophet stage with this?

Saturn (Aquarius 2146'15 10th)
Moon (Capricorn 10-15-54 8th)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote:
PROPHET PHASE
Well, the power of the previous phase passes as the Moon passes the 315 degree mark and moves towards its conjunction with Saturn. The Moon needs to start thinking about how it can change, manage change, resist change, become change -- all under the inner knowing that change will be neccessary and that preparations must be made. What rules, what feelings, which way to blend a new set of circumstances. Can the future be seen, or does it weigh one down. Is the anticipation worse than the actual soon-to-come experiences? Is there still time to party?
I detest change.....period. Yet, my life has been full of "change" since I was 5 years old. I yearn for the stability that I really have never experienced. At this time in my life, I see "change" as something that "needs" to happen and is going to happen.....and as the time ticks on.....the change is getting closer and this is a major change. I'm in the process of embracing it....trying to stay grounded .....but there is fear and anxiety that looms close....but I'm still going to do this....and yes, this "change" has come about because of a vision for the future....for myself as well as my 5 kids and what I can set up and be able to provide for them later on in life if they need it. So, as I see it.....I'm learning the lesson in the latter part of my life.....but it's been a rough ride.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadsnook2000

ANALYST PHASE
The anti-Saturn feelings keep intensifying! With the Moon 135 to 180 degrees ahead of Saturn there seems to be an outright hostility to traditions. All that was learned and practiced and honored will now be adapted to serve new needs.

By now, we have come to realize that the "Analyst" phase could also be called the "Adjustment" phase. It's just that on an emotional, gut feeling level, the term "adjustment" might not be strong enough. The term "forcing a re-arrangement" might be better in many cases.
Moon 168.39 Saturn

Anti Saturn feelings, that's me. I term it more anti-manipulation. I think, if it works and fits well, don't fix it... not too much anyway. Some people seem to not be able to see how their square peg doesn't fit as well anymore. Most old ways I see as put in place for control, more than anything else. But a situation that adheres to old social themes, when others are getting a clue how things can be better or to move on with life, is what needs to be changed. I'm always for that type of thing. If I write a historical, I want to create the heroine that breaks rules. The good girl who follows her dada isn't for me, but there are some old fogey authors (some not so old, but still fogey) who think you *have* to adhere to the rules of an historical age in order to be seen as credicle. Pffffft.

One thing that is interesting about me, is that I try to shy away from emotional pain, yet I seem to always search it out subconsciously. Maybe that's just melodramatic of me, and all people experience pain, but I'm wondering if that isn't the nature of approaching oppositions and eclipses; working your way to the furthest reaches, or the bottom of the well, and the only way left is to get lost, or come back.
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Moon ~ 26 Tau 29
Saturn ~ 19 Gem 37

So that is roughly 23 degrees between the two. Which puts me in the Performer Phase
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadsnook2000
PEFORMER PHASE
With the natal Moon placed between 0 and 45 degrees ahead of natal Saturn, this signifies a strong identity being formed early in life. Beliefs that are chosen or accepted early are followed automatically. Only much later will early-adopted beliefs be subject to review.

These statements are derived from the fact that Moon has just left its close contact with Saturn and will carry Saturn's rigidity, rules and conservatism for some time through ones life.
I assume that is right! It is hard to say about the beliefs, as my dad was the one that won in the end, and he was not a religious man! I really can't say that there were any beliefs that were there to be chosen from in the first place, although I had gone to church when I was young, but it did not impact me greatly.

How much later are we talking about Dave???
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadsnook2000
ANALYST PHASE
The anti-Saturn feelings keep intensifying! With the Moon 135 to 180 degrees ahead of Saturn there seems to be an outright hostility to traditions. All that was learned and practiced and honored will now be adapted to serve new needs.

By now, we have come to realize that the "Analyst" phase could also be called the "Adjustment" phase. It's just that on an emotional, gut feeling level, the term "adjustment" might not be strong enough. The term "forcing a re-arrangement" might be better in many cases.
Saturn makes an opposition to my moon, so i think this might be the one; if not, at least the hostility towards tradition suits me very well: i hate it.
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PROPHET PHASE
Well, the power of the previous phase passes as the Moon passes the 315 degree mark and moves towards its conjunction with Saturn. The Moon needs to start thinking about how it can change, manage change, resist change, become change -- all under the inner knowing that change will be neccessary and that preparations must be made. What rules, what feelings, which way to blend a new set of circumstances. Can the future be seen, or does it weigh one down. Is the anticipation worse than the actual soon-to-come experiences? Is there still time to party?
------------------------

i don't cope with change very well at all - in fact whenever i have had depression it has resulted from an inability to embrace change (thank you for making me realise that)- even though i know things must change/i must adapt to lifes changes it's very hard to do - it's to do with losing control i guess/not knowing what future will bring and yes, being apprehensive, sometimes of even the smallest things
just my 2 cents
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Comments and Answers


WHITE RAVEN
No, Saturn being the "anchor point" because it moves slower, the Moon is in the Prophet Phase (Moon in Cap hasn't yet caught up with Saturn in Aquarius). Check out that statement and see how it fits with your own experiences in life.

STAR DANCER
Thanks for your insights. More often than not, Saturn is indeed spelled P-A-I-N. We seem to have to struggle so hard to learn his lessons.

rcb30872
Like White Raven, you have it backwards. Saturn is the anchor point, we see the Moon's position (as the faster moving body) as signifying what phase we are in. For you, its the Prophet Phase.

SIREN RISING
With Saturn at 16 degrees and Moon opposite at 18 degrees, you are in the Seeker Phase (182 degrees ahead of Saturn). At this point you find you can't get away from Saturn. Rules, social conventions, restrictions and limits of many kinds seem to follow you. What is important to remember is that you can find a way to work within the rules so as to have more freedom. In another four years or so you will have a Saturn Return -- something we have not yet talked about. What you learn now in terms of living with what you feel are restrictions will help you then. Patience (A Saturn word).

STAR LOVER
After awhile you learn to embrace change, let life blow where it wants. If you can't control it, why try? Often a smile at a stranger turns out well.

These are all great inputs. We will next be considering how to bring the HOUSES into our responses so that we can better understand how to work with Saturn. Much later, we will look at Saturn transits thru our charts which will give us more control over our lives. Dave
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I'm confused because my natal moon has not caught up to Saturn.....thus I'm not the Performer Phase because you stated that in that Phase, the moon is "ahead" of Saturn.
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i think I am this phase though not too sure...


Moon Leo 13.55
Saturn Libra 20.21

Moon is 66 (approx) degrees ahead of Saturn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadsnook
WORKER PHASE
Moon is located 45 to 90 degrees ahead of Saturn, signifying that one tends to work towards creating a new or changed identity so that the past identity can be left behind and a new future sought out.

This might be wrong - having troubling drawing parallels with this definition and my life...

Perhaps if I recalculate I would be in the Changer Phase? This seems more like me as well so... as my math skills are sadly lacking, most appreciative as always for corrections Dave.

Crystelle
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