II The Grand Duke--Minchiate "Tarot"

After reading the thread on the Emperors (in the Historical decks thread), I realized the Grand Duke was neglected. I assume this is due to the ambiguity surrounding the GD. Is he a feminine ruler or emperor that is softer and more nurturing in his ways? Is he the High Priestess/Popess in disguise? Is he an emperor apprentice or one who will one day be emperor?

Brian Williams describes him as one who is authoritative like the other emperors, but is still a novice in being a ruler. I don't know if that is really what the GD embodies. His youthful appearance may just be a way of feminizing (is that a word?) him. Was the GD a political statement in the 19th Century, or was it a way of maintaining the Popess without actually calling the arcanum the Popess? Not sure.

Thoughts on the GD and his divinatory meaning? I am very interested in the GD because his is such an enigma; Williams also mentions that the title, the GD, may not even be correct. Hummmm....

-FS

FaerieStorm,

The LWB from my Minchiate Etruria calls card two The Empress, and in this deck at least, she looks more like a woman than a man.

It is indeed mystery, which I am sure I do not know the answer to. Hope to learn more.

-fof

I would like to have Williams' book on the Minchiate (and the pack!), but don't have it as yet. Here is what I know about the "Grand Duke" and the other imperial figures.

The name "Grand Duke", along with "Western Emperor" and "Eastern Emperor" was first given to the cards by Romain Merlin in 1859 (see _Nouvelles recherches sur l'origine des cartes à jouer_, in "Revue archéologique" XVI (1859) pp. 284-285, especially p. 285 note 2). In rule books about Minchiate written before that, the cards are simply known by their numbers (II, III, IIII) or as part of the group of "Papi" (numbers I-V). Names were never written on Minchiate cards.

The name "Grand Duke" is anachronistic, because the Minchiate series already existed by at least 1543, whereas the Republic of Florence only became the Grand Duchy of Florence in 1569 (Dummett and McLeod, "A History of Games Played with the Tarot Pack", p. 318). You can't have a Grand Duke before you have a Grand Duchy!

The earliest tarot packs in Florence (where Minchiate was invented) had the two Papal and two Imperial figures (the "Rosenwald sheet" is the earliest printed evidence of the Florentine tarot (for the sheet see Kaplan "Encyclopedia of Tarot" vol. I, pp. 130-131). It seems that early in the 16th century, the Florentine pattern and those cities southwards influenced by it, changed the Papal figures into Imperial ones (or into "Satraps" or "Moors"), and in the Minchiate one figure of the old tarot series was removed. Whether it was a "Papessa" or a "Papa", or an Emperor or Empress is impossible to say, since the designs were changed (although this is worth a discussion IMO).

As far as I know, the only divinatory meanings given to Minchiate cards are modern inventions, so the "meaning" of a card such as the "Grand Duke" can only be found in either the publications listing such meanings, or in the intuition of the modern reader of Minchiate cards. There is no "traditional" or ancient meaning.

Andy Pollett's webpages about Minchiate are a delightful read (but he could have been clearer on this question, I think) -
http://l-pollett.tripod.com/cards17.htm

Ross

This thread started by full deck talks about the Emperors and also the Grand Duke in the Michiate deck. I haven't used this deck for divination in a while and even then was using it more for myself and for studying/comparing, but as I wrote previously, I used the Grand Duke card as the Empress. The figure is definately the most feminine of Trumps II, III and IIII.

The thread: Where is the Papess also discusses which cards various readers use for Empress, Emperor, Pope and Papess.

The Sol Leone deck was produced in 1980, but take a look at "Il Granduca..." Very feminine. I call it "La Granduchessa."

I also use the "XXX. Cancer" for the "III. Empress" because it embodies the home and the privacy and all the other Empress qualities.

KK

I am waiting for the Minchiate Etruria to arrive! And I am too impatient so I look at the scans everyday on the web. http://www.tarot.org.il/Minchiate Etruria/ I also read all threads I could find here at AT about the Etruria.
This is a deck I keep dreaming about even without ever seeing the cards for real so far. I have this silent little happy hum inside of me and I know the deck on it's way is singing the same joyful song. I will trip the postman if he doesn't bring it today...

Now when looking at the scan of the Grand Duke I have a few questions:
- He(/she) is stroking an animal which looks a bit lion-like. IS it a lion?
- And if so then this card has much of a Strength quality, hasn't it?
Anyone who knows more? And does the Brian Williams book say something about this animal?
Thanks in advance.
Blessings

Dwaas said:

I am waiting for the Minchiate Etruria to arrive! And I am too impatient so I look at the scans everyday on the web. http://www.tarot.org.il/Minchiate Etruria/ I also read all threads I could find here at AT about the Etruria.
This is a deck I keep dreaming about even without ever seeing the cards for real so far. I have this silent little happy hum inside of me and I know the deck on it's way is singing the same joyful song. I will trip the postman if he doesn't bring it today...

Now when looking at the scan of the Grand Duke I have a few questions:
- He(/she) is stroking an animal which looks a bit lion-like. IS it a lion?
- And if so then this card has much of a Strength quality, hasn't it?
Anyone who knows more? And does the Brian Williams book say something about this animal?
Thanks in advance.
Blessings

Click to expand...

This card is not the Grand Duke, but is in fact the High Priestess. I have an image and further explanation on my web site.

The animal is indeed a feline (think of the Strength card only here we see spiritual strength or self-actualisation) and I don't give Mr Williams much credence on his analysis of this deck I'm sorry.

Th fact of the matter is that, yes, the II is called the Grand Duke. It is a masculine figure with feminine attributes. Even in the Al Solleone decks "she" is referred to as Il Granduca, not La Granduchessa. [Although personally in reading with this deck I always refer to her as La Granduchessa.]

It seems to me that at least once it has occurred that several cards have been subsumed into one card --as is the case with The Hermit acquiring the 3 + 1 virtues, XVI-XVIIII-- why not with HPS? Isn't it remotely possible that several of the elements and/or astrological signs actually metamorphosed into what we know today as the HPS?

I refused to get hung up on GD constructs just because they chose to make II a feminine figure.

Instead of getting caught up in arguing whether she is male or female, or whether a certain author has credence (which, BTW I am not sure has anything to do with the study of the card), let's discuss why this figure is so asexual in the first place.

Since there definitely is no Empress (I use XXX. IlCancro for that), could the Granduca be a substitute for both. Does he embody the masculine and feminine attributes of this ruler? Or must we force the Minchiate deck into the archetypal hierarchy of the "standard" GD tarot? I vote for option "A." After all, this is the inherent purpose of this study group: to enhance the understanding of the significance and the historical role of the Minchiate gaming system as it applies to fortune-telling through symbolism and archetypal imaging. We are not comparing systems here.

Il Sagittario also has High Priestess qualities, as Il Cancro possesses the Empress qualities. Does anyone use XXVIIII. Sagittarius as a replacement for HPS? Might XX. Il fuoco also serve as a HPS surrogate? What about XXI. L'acqua?

KK

Dwaas said:

...does the Brian Williams book say something about this animal?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I have packed away my Williams' book. I woot find it surprising if he does not mention this animal. His insights; his scholarly background and study; is experiences as a Renaissance art historian; and as the creator of a Minchiate system, unlike any of the others, he will enrich your library and your thoughts. I strongly recommend his book, but so much from a fortune-telling perspective.

KK

Like I mentioned on my website concerning this card

Some have labelled this card as “Grand Duke” suggesting a less than spiritual attachment, however the title of Grand Duchess or High Priest may also apply. This is the duality of this card.

Click to expand...

It is my opinion the label of "Grand Duke" is a result of the observer not seeing past the drawing on a piece of paper (Williams being one of these people). Hence the credibility of any esoteric association given by these authors is questionable.

But that's just my opinion, go read what I have to say about card IIII