Merkstaves

Umbrae

Reversed?

Reversed...Uh...yes no not really let me chat for a moment.

This may end up in a later thread.

You see, in our modern society, we view things in forms of duality.

Perhaps we borrowed it from the Asian yin-yang.

However we do see things as good/evil, black/white, holy/unholy, positive/negative, and upright/reversed. This concept is largely borrowed from the middle east, where it is/was common practice to divide things into perfect good/ perfect evil.

Absolute concepts are swell when you are devising a religion, but the world is relative; this viewpoint does not allow for local customs and beliefs.

The Teutonic/Norse peoples did not hold to an absolutist view of good and evil. They held with the beliefs of right and justice, correct behavior within your society.

The concept of Merkstave is a modern, dualistic use/belief (perpetrated by authors who need to sell books, and do little to no conclusive research). In constructing a ‘view’ of each rune, I have a choice: to provide as much information as possible and allow each user to assimilate what they will, or endorse my beliefs and use as the only correct viewpoint.

Is a Merkstave reversed? Some say face down is a Merkstave. Some say if the rune is upside down it is a Merkstave. I personally adhere to neither of these beliefs, but use a Merkstave in a layout (similar to a Tarot layout).
 

Angel Star

Merkstave what an interesting term. I have done some rune studying although not as extensive as the tarot cards. I say try to look at the rune in general terms to find out what it may be trying to tell you. Whether the Norse thought in negative/positive good/evil is a good point but when you just want to get a reading done dwell into the whole rune just to see what comes up. I am sure the energies will play themselves out to you will be able to see what this particular rune is trying to say.
 

Umbrae

Angel Star-exactly! Look at the runes from a holistic viewpoint look at/listen to what the rune is saying, as opposed to thinking ‘is it up, down this way that way…’
 

Alleira

I'm sure I'm a little late on the uptake here (haven't been in, in a while.) When I read runes and one falls like that, I don't read both the postive and negatives. If the stave if facing down, I read it as either reversed or inverted. It it's facing up, I read it as right side up. As I view it in a clockwise manor. Each placement is only a quarter turn from being right side up or inverted/reversed.

There is a difference in a reading between inverted and reversed. It's not always the opposite of what the general meaning is. (That was as clear as mud right?)

That's just my take on this. It's never been wrong with my readings. I feel that the most important thing you could do is read it the way it feels. What is the first direction that comes to mind? Right side up or right side down? Go with which has the stronger pull to you. What you think is what is important in this moment.

Alleira
 

Angel Star

I still suggest pulling on the energies of this particular rune into the reading as it has fallen sideways 2 times. Obviously there is more going on with this particular rune that the whole rune would be best to take in the feeling of it rather that right side up or reversed. Give it time the runes energy as I stated earlier will play its energy out. With me everytime I pull runes the energies play themselves out so fast I don't even know what has hit me whether its fallen rightside up or upside down they are such an intersting tool to work with. I should work with them more often but for me the runes can be a bit intimidating for the exact reason I stated the energies really draw themselves out quickly. I love them though and its very interesting when this happens as I tend to ignore them at times and its as if the runes are saying to me "look, listen and feel us we are trying to tell you something" lol as Umbrae has stated in her previous post. The runes will not be ignored!, is the message I get from them often.
 

Kiama

I guess not usig MJerstaves is exactly the same as not using Reversals in Tarot readings. I don't use Reversals, and usually, judging byu surrounding cards and the position of that card, one can tell whether or not that particular card is telling you its 'upside down' or 'upright' meaning. I suppose its the same with Runes, although cuz I haven't been using Runes as long as Tarot, I still often use Merkstave.

One thought I had though, which I PM'd to Umbrae, was this: The Runes inevitably fall either faceup, face down, or reverse, and any combination of these... It wouldn't surprise me in the slightes if the Norse Teutonic peoples had some way of incorporating these possible falls in their Rune interpretations.

Kiama
 

raeanne

For me, each rune (or tarot card for that matter) has a seed or core energy. For example, Uruz is cattle or wealth. Now, around that seed energy are all the ways in which that energy can manifest itself. Wealth can have positive effects but it can also be used in very destructive ways such as the Enron company where extreme wealth became greed and destroyed the common workers. But, all of this wealth energy is a part of Uruz. In a reading, the rune can lie well within the throw (or draw or however you do this) or it can lie contrary. Sometimes you do a throw and you look at the runes and say “What’s that rune doing there?” It doesn’t make any sense. You blink your eyes and look again and it still doesn’t make any sense. That’s when I think a rune is to be read as merkstave instead of brighstave. It doesn’t HAVE to be upside down or turned around or anything else. It just doesn’t fit! I cast the runes by shaking a handful and dropping them from about 30 cm/1 foot height. Sometimes I will have a rune that is way separated from all the others. This doesn’t always have a merkstave meaning but it can. It might mean a delay. Does it fit with the other runes or is it contrary? For me, that is the key question for deciding when to read bright or merk.
 

Umbrae

The Teutonic/Norse peoples did not hold to an absolutist view of good and evil.

raeanne - good call.

Like I said, "The concept of Merkstave is a modern, dualistic use/belief (perpetrated by authors who need to sell books, and do little to no conclusive research). In constructing a ‘view’ of each rune, I have a choice: to provide as much information as possible and allow each user to assimilate what they will, or endorse my beliefs and use as the only correct viewpoint."

as you said, "In a reading, the rune can lie well within the throw (or draw or however you do this) or it can lie contrary. Sometimes you do a throw and you look at the runes and say “What’s that rune doing there?” It doesn’t make any sense. You blink your eyes and look again and it still doesn’t make any sense. That’s when I think a rune is to be read as merkstave instead of brighstave. It doesn’t HAVE to be upside down or turned around or anything else. It just doesn’t fit!"
 

runehunt

merkstave??

Where did you get your knowledge on YIN and YANG? YIN and YANG are complementary, but opposite aspects of the one energ chi. There is no perfect this or that. In other words,night needs day if it is to have meaning. YIN and YANG is depicted as an interlocked circle divided equally into white and black halves, each bearing the seed of it's opposite as a dot of the opposite color,and with every duality imaginable: acyive/passive, winter/summer, heat/cold, up/down. By knowing what a thing is not. Is how we know what it is. The only thing that is constant in YIN and YANG is change, there is nothing completely YIN or completly YANG all is relative..The meaning of YIN and YANG fits your-Merkstsve if I have read your meaning correctly. And if the -merksstave is a modern belief, [perpetrated by authers who want to sell books.] why mention it at all?? It's like the blank rune. For a aquick reference. You might try Teach yourself I CHING by Andy Baggott or The Dragon Oracle by Gillian Stokes or if you want to spend some time with it, try The I CHING Book of Changes by Wilhelm/Baynes **RUNEHUNT**
 

jade

i understand the point you are making about yin and yang - in all things there is motion and change.

i assume the reason that umbrae (who is a guy by the way folks :D) brought up this point of merkstave is because this is a forum of discussion. so we like to discuss many different points.

since this is in many books......it's a good learning topic.

in light,
jade