Judgement and Hanged man

Can Judgement also mean:

1) that someone is literally judging something or someone?
2) that the person is thinking about a situation or a person or an issue? I know Judgement means renewal, wake up call...but can it simply mean that someone is thinking about whatever the issue? If yes, in what sense - trying to get a new perspective? Is Judgement connected to thought, considering, analyzing?

What about the Hanged man?
Is Hanged man also thinking to get a new, different perspective? Or does HM not think at all? Is there some mental process involved?

I think Justice would be more about weighing something, more than Judgement, tho' Judgement could be the final realization of Justice, coming to grips with the issues, being carried along by them. Since it is things that are inevitable and the wheel has been set in motion, to resist is futile. Judgement would be the consequences, the result of deliberation and the Hanged Man... having to accept that there is nothing that can be done to change the outcome.

Or if Hanged Man is following Judgement, that the person is resisting the flow, trying to go against the current.

But your thoughts that the Hanged Man is getting a different perspective is also a really good way of looking at this too... seeing things from all sides, but mainly I think, being unresistant and accepting. To me it often is being in oppostition to whatever is the prevailing accepted course and bearing the responsibility of not going along with that or accepting the consequences of one's actions or views.

When I see this combination it sounds like "doing time" or some past wrong catching up with you. Believe it or not I get this card when people are "judging" themselves a lot- maybe the person is stifled by their own inner judgements?

YDM42 said:

When I see this combination it sounds like "doing time" or some past wrong catching up with you.

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Interesting interpetation. I like it!

wind said:

1) that someone is literally judging something or someone?

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The problem is with that "someome." Justice indicates a "someone" doing the judging. But Judgement is more like the universe or you, yourself, doing the judging. There is a "judgement" but it's from a greater/higher power--including an inner or spiritual power.

wind said:

2) Is Judgement connected to thought, considering, analyzing?

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Very much so. But once again, we're talking about a larger scale. I've heard, for example, that Judgement can indicate time in the hospital--and at such times, we often reflect on our life and what we'd do different--what we WILL do different if we recover and get out.

So we're talking very serious reflection on one's life. Thinking about who we are, what we've done and where we're going. And, especially, about what we want to change.

The Hanged Man is very apt at such a time, as he can indicate new insight. Seeing things very differently.

Think about "A Christmas Carol" and how Scrooge looks back on his life, what he did in the past, what he's doing now, gets a new perspective on it all (Hanged Man--new perspective), and decides, on reflection and in view of the future outcome, that he must make a radical change. Refresh and restart his life (Judgement).

These cards together certainly indicate a period of lock up, or hospitalization, or something where the person is forced or induced to relfect very deeply on themselves--and are likely to come out of it a changed man. I imagine that moment which leads to a person's decision to reform, or start going to AA, or find religion would be exemplified by this combo.

Hi,

thank you for your inputs!

Actually, it was not about these two cards showing up together, but still your observations about them are very interesting.

I always though that Judgement is about new start, opportunity turning a leaf, moving on...but I never really reflected on how this happens. Now I understand moe clearly, that it is a deep reflection on someone's life, who (s)he is etc.

And for the Hanged man, I feel that he is forced to not move. Is it like this with all Major cards, that outside influences on which we don't have so much control, force us to do something? So, with the Hanged man, because the situation is stuck and therefor we are stuck, so we have to try to see what to do and see the situation from a different angle? So, does the Hanged man think too?

About as much as anyone locked in prision reflects on his life and mulls over and over what he could have done differently..or not gotten caught or how to ask for forgiveness...its a forced processe no doubt but one that is just as deep as the process of judgement.

wind said:

Hi,

thank you for your inputs!

Actually, it was not about these two cards showing up together, but still your observations about them are very interesting.

I always though that Judgement is about new start, opportunity turning a leaf, moving on...but I never really reflected on how this happens. Now I understand moe clearly, that it is a deep reflection on someone's life, who (s)he is etc.

And for the Hanged man, I feel that he is forced to not move. Is it like this with all Major cards, that outside influences on which we don't have so much control, force us to do something? So, with the Hanged man, because the situation is stuck and therefor we are stuck, so we have to try to see what to do and see the situation from a different angle? So, does the Hanged man think too?

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wind said:

And for the Hanged man, I feel that he is forced to not move. Is it like this with all Major cards, that outside influences on which we don't have so much control, force us to do something?

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No. Not all major cards are about outside influences over which we have little control. Some are about the power within us and the control is completely within our hands--like the Chariot, or The Emperor, Strength, The Hermit or Temperance.

Those cards don't speak of outside events or forces, but rather our own decisions.

So, with the Hanged man, because the situation is stuck and therefor we are stuck, so we have to try to see what to do and see the situation from a different angle? So, does the Hanged man think too?

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Remember that the Hanged Man is also about sacrifice. He can't move until he's willing to sacrifice something.

So using YDM42's example of the man in jail--the Hanged Man suggests that he's seeing his life very differently than he did before, maybe finally realizing what he's done and why it was a bad thing. But *UNTIL* he's willing to give up that old life, to make amends to his victims maybe, or work hard rather than steal, he's not going anywhere.

You don't get paroled unless the parole board feels that you're really remorseful for what you did and really willing to change. And THAT is up to you.

And as you can see, outside forces may have had nothing to do with his situation. He may have gotten himself into that position--even the hospitalized person may have gotten themselves into that hospital bed with hard drinking and bad habits; either way, he's the only one who can get himself out of it.

The Hanged Man doesn't "think" so much as feel and have visions--he's often related to water (either the element of water or the planet Neptune) and that means insights. He doesn't go over the facts and consider things rationally; he drifts and *sees* and feels on a gut level what is true. He has a very emotional ephiphany, if you will.

Hi, Thirteen,

I really loved your input, I learn a lot from you! Yes, HM is Neptune, of course. I guess it can also mean sacrificying someone's ego and stubborness.

Thank you